Comments on: Binge drinking voters get 2-for-1 booze ban http://philtheone.com/2010/01/binge-drinking-voters-get-2-for-1-booze-ban/ Right-leaning Blackpool blog covering South Shore, North Shore, Marton, Bispham, Cleveleys and the rest of the Fylde discussing politics, local life, tourism, national issues and the rest of the world. Lively discussions encouraged! Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:19:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: stephen pierre http://philtheone.com/2010/01/binge-drinking-voters-get-2-for-1-booze-ban/#comment-19194 stephen pierre Fri, 04 Feb 2011 14:27:23 +0000 http://philtheone.com/?p=1308#comment-19194 Gone are the days of making 600% profit in a pint of draught beer! I know you mentioned before overheads, nevertheless the license trade, whether it be social clubs, traditional pubs, music bars or night clubs are having a very tough time. Thats why I would like to encourage espresso coffee, WIFI etc. And those venues who have the capacity to do quality light snacks should do so! Brewery's did have it too good for too long and damaged the industry by calculating rents by the size of the venue by square footage. The smaller brewery's sold out to big conglomerate companies mainly run by ruthless corporate accountants who perhaps have never pulled a pint in their lives. Come to think of it neither have I, know doubt will do soon! Gone are the days of making 600% profit in a pint of draught beer! I know you mentioned before overheads, nevertheless the license trade, whether it be social clubs, traditional pubs, music bars or night clubs are having a very tough time. Thats why I would like to encourage espresso coffee, WIFI etc. And those venues who have the capacity to do quality light snacks should do so! Brewery’s did have it too good for too long and damaged the industry by calculating rents by the size of the venue by square footage. The smaller brewery’s sold out to big conglomerate companies mainly run by ruthless corporate accountants who perhaps have never pulled a pint in their lives. Come to think of it neither have I, know doubt will do soon!

]]> By: David Palmer http://philtheone.com/2010/01/binge-drinking-voters-get-2-for-1-booze-ban/#comment-19191 David Palmer Fri, 04 Feb 2011 11:53:03 +0000 http://philtheone.com/?p=1308#comment-19191 Phil a pint of the cheapest draught beer I am told works out costing a bar approx a £1.00 per pint, some quite a bit more depending on brand, you sell it at £2.50 leaves you £1.50 profit, when you take bar staff wages into account, door staff, PRS, PLB, business rates, rent for the property whether you lease it or own outright, licence fees and utility bills there is very little profit left if any. This is why a lot of brewery's are closing down pubs and selling them off for other uses, it is sometimes cheaper to close a bar down altogether rather than remain open and running at a loss. The smoking ban did not help, neither did the shifting of licensing hours as people tend to come into town later now meaning that you have to stay open longer resulting in a larger wage bill for not much difference in takings. Lets not forget that the night time economy of Blackpool is suffering badly due to the recession, you only have to go into town mid week to see how quite the bars and restaurants are. I do think that Bar managers have a difficult task in any town to make their bars profitable and are under continuous pressure from the brewery's to increase profits. As for closing a bar down immediately, the police have the power to do this if they suspect a public disorder offence is going to be committed and indeed did do when they shut Brannigans and the rest of the bars in Market St when the Man united fans turned up for the game against Blackpool before xmas that was postponed. Brannigans had a lot of supporters in there causing trouble, so they closed it down so that they could clear them out, they also closed NTK and Yates as a precaution whilst they cleared these fans away. Once the trouble makers had gone then they allowed the bars to reopen, no doubt Brannigans would be reported to appear before the licensing committee for a review of its licence had it not gone into administration. Once the licensing committee make a order to suspend a licence or introduce more conditions on a premises licence then you have 28 days to appeal this decision to a magistrates court, some bars do play this system as once you appeal you are allowed to remain open until the appeal is held, then you may choose to drop the appeal once you have hit a quite spell rather than go to the expense of a appeal, and serve your sentence. There is nothing Blackpool council can do about this as it is the law of the land, and god help us if the appeals system was ever dropped as we have seen many miscarriages of justice. Phil a pint of the cheapest draught beer I am told works out costing a bar approx a £1.00 per pint, some quite a bit more depending on brand, you sell it at £2.50 leaves you £1.50 profit, when you take bar staff wages into account, door staff, PRS, PLB, business rates, rent for the property whether you lease it or own outright, licence fees and utility bills there is very little profit left if any.

This is why a lot of brewery’s are closing down pubs and selling them off for other uses, it is sometimes cheaper to close a bar down altogether rather than remain open and running at a loss. The smoking ban did not help, neither did the shifting of licensing hours as people tend to come into town later now meaning that you have to stay open longer resulting in a larger wage bill for not much difference in takings. Lets not forget that the night time economy of Blackpool is suffering badly due to the recession, you only have to go into town mid week to see how quite the bars and restaurants are.

I do think that Bar managers have a difficult task in any town to make their bars profitable and are under continuous pressure from the brewery’s to increase profits. As for closing a bar down immediately, the police have the power to do this if they suspect a public disorder offence is going to be committed and indeed did do when they shut Brannigans and the rest of the bars in Market St when the Man united fans turned up for the game against Blackpool before xmas that was postponed.

Brannigans had a lot of supporters in there causing trouble, so they closed it down so that they could clear them out, they also closed NTK and Yates as a precaution whilst they cleared these fans away. Once the trouble makers had gone then they allowed the bars to reopen, no doubt Brannigans would be reported to appear before the licensing committee for a review of its licence had it not gone into administration.

Once the licensing committee make a order to suspend a licence or introduce more conditions on a premises licence then you have 28 days to appeal this decision to a magistrates court, some bars do play this system as once you appeal you are allowed to remain open until the appeal is held, then you may choose to drop the appeal once you have hit a quite spell rather than go to the expense of a appeal, and serve your sentence.

There is nothing Blackpool council can do about this as it is the law of the land, and god help us if the appeals system was ever dropped as we have seen many miscarriages of justice.

]]> By: tramstop http://philtheone.com/2010/01/binge-drinking-voters-get-2-for-1-booze-ban/#comment-19186 tramstop Fri, 04 Feb 2011 10:22:22 +0000 http://philtheone.com/?p=1308#comment-19186 Why should I, a responsible adult and social drinker be unable to take advantage of cheaper prices because some half-wits cannot be trusted to drink within their capacity. Being drunk is the excuse given all too often for criminal and anti-social offences. Blaming supermarkets is even more stupid. Zero tolerance on drink related crime might seem draconian but let us no longer accept being drunk as an excuse for bad behaviour. Treat these offences and offenders with the contempt they deserve. As a community insist that local Police deal with drink related issues effectively and spontaneously. If that means half the cops out in Talbot Sq/Queens Sq on a Saturday night locking up the offenders and people pissing in doorways - so be it. It would not take long for the message to get through. Even consider empowering the Community Wardens to deal with drunks. Trying to fix artificially high drink prices only penalises the sensible majority and Henry Mitchell who does not have an original thought in his head (nay probably any thought) is merely jumping on the bandwagon because he feels that he has to say something. When Che bar fell foul of the licensing law and was ordered to close because of the number of drink related woundings there, what did the powers that be do? Allow them to open over the lucrative Christmas period and then permit them to choose to close for the first 2 weeks of January when there is no-one about anyway. The important fact here is that the Club owners chose when they were closing. Had they seriously wanted to send out a message to the pub trade surely they would have enforced the closure when it was going to hurt. ie Christmas Why should I, a responsible adult and social drinker be unable to take advantage of cheaper prices because some half-wits cannot be trusted to drink within their capacity. Being drunk is the excuse given all too often for criminal and anti-social offences. Blaming supermarkets is even more stupid. Zero tolerance on drink related crime might seem draconian but let us no longer accept being drunk as an excuse for bad behaviour. Treat these offences and offenders with the contempt they deserve. As a community insist that local Police deal with drink related issues effectively and spontaneously. If that means half the cops out in Talbot Sq/Queens Sq on a Saturday night locking up the offenders and people pissing in doorways – so be it. It would not take long for the message to get through. Even consider empowering the Community Wardens to deal with drunks.
Trying to fix artificially high drink prices only penalises the sensible majority and Henry Mitchell who does not have an original thought in his head (nay probably any thought) is merely jumping on the bandwagon because he feels that he has to say something.
When Che bar fell foul of the licensing law and was ordered to close because of the number of drink related woundings there, what did the powers that be do? Allow them to open over the lucrative Christmas period and then permit them to choose to close for the first 2 weeks of January when there is no-one about anyway. The important fact here is that the Club owners chose when they were closing. Had they seriously wanted to send out a message to the pub trade surely they would have enforced the closure when it was going to hurt. ie Christmas

]]> By: Philtheone http://philtheone.com/2010/01/binge-drinking-voters-get-2-for-1-booze-ban/#comment-19184 Philtheone Fri, 04 Feb 2011 09:16:18 +0000 http://philtheone.com/?p=1308#comment-19184 Nobody has actually proven that violence and antisocial behaviour of drunks is caused by booze purchased <em>from a supermarket</em>. They are just an easy target for people like Dave Daly, who wants people to spend more in his own premises, just like you do. He kicks off about all competition for his bar, including the Wetherspoons on the promenade. Apparently they are too cheap, but I've never felt threatened in there. I've got to say, though, that if this link between supermarket alcohol and violence is in fact made (using, yes, <em>real</em> facts not assumed ones put out there by local bar owners), locating a supermarket in the Talbot Gateway seems like a remarkably stupid idea. I wonder whether Dave Daly has thought about that? Regarding the price Tesco etc pay, it's obvious they would get a better deal than anyone else through economies of scale, but also I was under the impression that they were not making much/any profit on the booze they sold. On the other hand if I walk into a bar and pay £2.50 for a pint, the bar is making about 600% profit before overheads. There's a moral to that story somewhere. The 24 hours a day thing is also jumped on a lot, as if to suggest that Tesco is full of drunks in the middle of the night getting their 'fix'. Not true. I have been in that big Tesco at Mereside in the middle of the night several times and it's empty bar a few zombified staff, and no I wasn't buying booze! Nobody has actually proven that violence and antisocial behaviour of drunks is caused by booze purchased from a supermarket. They are just an easy target for people like Dave Daly, who wants people to spend more in his own premises, just like you do. He kicks off about all competition for his bar, including the Wetherspoons on the promenade. Apparently they are too cheap, but I’ve never felt threatened in there.

I’ve got to say, though, that if this link between supermarket alcohol and violence is in fact made (using, yes, real facts not assumed ones put out there by local bar owners), locating a supermarket in the Talbot Gateway seems like a remarkably stupid idea. I wonder whether Dave Daly has thought about that?

Regarding the price Tesco etc pay, it’s obvious they would get a better deal than anyone else through economies of scale, but also I was under the impression that they were not making much/any profit on the booze they sold. On the other hand if I walk into a bar and pay £2.50 for a pint, the bar is making about 600% profit before overheads. There’s a moral to that story somewhere.

The 24 hours a day thing is also jumped on a lot, as if to suggest that Tesco is full of drunks in the middle of the night getting their ‘fix’. Not true. I have been in that big Tesco at Mereside in the middle of the night several times and it’s empty bar a few zombified staff, and no I wasn’t buying booze!

]]> By: Frustrated http://philtheone.com/2010/01/binge-drinking-voters-get-2-for-1-booze-ban/#comment-19170 Frustrated Thu, 03 Feb 2011 23:43:24 +0000 http://philtheone.com/?p=1308#comment-19170 I think the licensing trade has to take it's share of the blame though. They offered drinking promotions. They increased the size of the glasses. They switched to drinks with higher % alcohol content. They turned up the music so people no longer talk as much and they removed seats - again to increase drinking and profit margins. Going out is now all about going out, getting drunk and copping off. In my childhood it was about going out drinking until you were very merry but convinced that a few mints and a bit of determination would make mum & dad think you hadn't touched a drop and flirting and snogging - far more innocent (but then we were surrounded by ads from the government with tombstones on them telling us if you had sex you'd die) (of course if your parents didn't kill you first). Now you have use a condom and you're fine. Take drugs and this one will do this, that one that... - not they're mixed with rubbish, you never know what you are getting and you could die. And no- your parents can't punish you except by asking you to go to your room and hope you stay there and so on. And I know the people doing this aren't all school age anymore but this is the age that's driving the whole bad attitude to having to be tanked up to have any fun (presumably because they have no personality or imagination to have fun without). Having said that supermarkets didn't used to have licences at all - I remember that and I'm only 40. And when they got them you certainly couldn't buy from them 24 hours a day or even during all their opening hours. And the only thing that was really cheap and booze was cider (and that makes you throw up before you get really drunk anyway). I think the licensing trade has to take it’s share of the blame though. They offered drinking promotions. They increased the size of the glasses. They switched to drinks with higher % alcohol content. They turned up the music so people no longer talk as much and they removed seats – again to increase drinking and profit margins.
Going out is now all about going out, getting drunk and copping off. In my childhood it was about going out drinking until you were very merry but convinced that a few mints and a bit of determination would make mum & dad think you hadn’t touched a drop and flirting and snogging – far more innocent (but then we were surrounded by ads from the government with tombstones on them telling us if you had sex you’d die) (of course if your parents didn’t kill you first). Now you have use a condom and you’re fine. Take drugs and this one will do this, that one that… – not they’re mixed with rubbish, you never know what you are getting and you could die. And no- your parents can’t punish you except by asking you to go to your room and hope you stay there and so on. And I know the people doing this aren’t all school age anymore but this is the age that’s driving the whole bad attitude to having to be tanked up to have any fun (presumably because they have no personality or imagination to have fun without).
Having said that supermarkets didn’t used to have licences at all – I remember that and I’m only 40. And when they got them you certainly couldn’t buy from them 24 hours a day or even during all their opening hours. And the only thing that was really cheap and booze was cider (and that makes you throw up before you get really drunk anyway).

]]> By: stephen pierre http://philtheone.com/2010/01/binge-drinking-voters-get-2-for-1-booze-ban/#comment-19168 stephen pierre Thu, 03 Feb 2011 22:53:13 +0000 http://philtheone.com/?p=1308#comment-19168 Supermakets that buy in such bulk sell booze and promotions at ridiculous give away prices. Getting tanked up at home is a big thing these days and the pubs, bars and clubs do get the brunt of it and often have to purchase alcohol from breweries at much higher prices than the likes of Asda, Tesco's and so forth. Personal responsibly and a balance of common sense from bar owners and landlords should help reduce the binge culture and under-age drinking . It goes on in many town centres all over the UK and I feel it is unfair to label Blackpool as one of the worst. The Council, licensing Police and the registered door staff work very hard to reduce town centre boisterousness. I agree with Henry Mitchell the Government need to clamp down on the big supermarket chains and their irresponsible tempting offers. Their promotions are slowly but surely damaging the licence pub trade further and encouraging younger people to go 'bananas' Supermakets that buy in such bulk sell booze and promotions at ridiculous give away prices. Getting tanked up at home is a big thing these days and the pubs, bars and clubs do get the brunt of it and often have to purchase alcohol from breweries at much higher prices than the likes of Asda, Tesco’s and so forth. Personal responsibly and a balance of common sense from bar owners and landlords should help reduce the binge culture and under-age drinking . It goes on in many town centres all over the UK and I feel it is unfair to label Blackpool as one of the worst. The Council, licensing Police and the registered door staff work very hard to reduce town centre boisterousness. I agree with Henry Mitchell the Government need to clamp down on the big supermarket chains and their irresponsible tempting offers. Their promotions are slowly but surely damaging the licence pub trade further and encouraging younger people to go ‘bananas’

]]> By: shoggy http://philtheone.com/2010/01/binge-drinking-voters-get-2-for-1-booze-ban/#comment-19165 shoggy Thu, 03 Feb 2011 21:57:46 +0000 http://philtheone.com/?p=1308#comment-19165 REOPENING THE DEBATE AS IN GASJET Market Street was revealed as being the worst in Blackpool for violent crime after street-by-street figures were published yesterday on interactive crime maps by the Home Office. Coun Henry Mitchell, chairman of Blackpool Council Licensing Committee, said he was concerned by the figures. He added: “We’re one of the worst in the North West, I’m very concerned. It’s a dreadful situation, it’s not good for the town. “I’m not blaming the pubs, they have got their work cut out. The Government needs to clamp down on the supermarkets and cheap booze. “People get cheap booze, get tanked up and then go out in town. They’re beyond reason.” ------------------------------- I AM MORE CONCERNED THAT THE LICENSING COMMITEE GRANT CONTINUATION OF LICENSES WITH IN CORRECT PAPERWORK IN PLACE. REOPENING THE DEBATE

AS IN GASJET

Market Street was revealed as being the worst in Blackpool for violent crime after street-by-street figures were published yesterday on interactive crime maps by the Home Office.

Coun Henry Mitchell, chairman of Blackpool Council Licensing Committee, said he was concerned by the figures.

He added: “We’re one of the worst in the North West, I’m very concerned. It’s a dreadful situation, it’s not good for the town.

“I’m not blaming the pubs, they have got their work cut out. The Government needs to clamp down on the supermarkets and cheap booze.

“People get cheap booze, get tanked up and then go out in town. They’re beyond reason.”

——————————-

I AM MORE CONCERNED THAT THE LICENSING COMMITEE GRANT CONTINUATION OF LICENSES WITH IN CORRECT PAPERWORK IN PLACE.

]]> By: Philtheone http://philtheone.com/2010/01/binge-drinking-voters-get-2-for-1-booze-ban/#comment-16812 Philtheone Mon, 03 Jan 2011 19:18:03 +0000 http://philtheone.com/?p=1308#comment-16812 Hi Cardy, just to echo what interested has said - I'm a Conservative at heart and as such my views will lean on that side of most arguments. Remember, this is just a blog site so most posts will be just my own opinions (or those of the one or two guest authors that post here), though I do try to explore opposing or different arguments as well. I'm not a member of any political party and most local Conservatives absolutely despise me and my website. I think it would be fair to say that I am a true Conservative rather than this neo-socialist abomination we have running Blackpool at the moment, though I am not driven by any ideology other than one that seeks to improve. Hi Cardy, just to echo what interested has said – I’m a Conservative at heart and as such my views will lean on that side of most arguments. Remember, this is just a blog site so most posts will be just my own opinions (or those of the one or two guest authors that post here), though I do try to explore opposing or different arguments as well.

I’m not a member of any political party and most local Conservatives absolutely despise me and my website.

I think it would be fair to say that I am a true Conservative rather than this neo-socialist abomination we have running Blackpool at the moment, though I am not driven by any ideology other than one that seeks to improve.

]]> By: interested http://philtheone.com/2010/01/binge-drinking-voters-get-2-for-1-booze-ban/#comment-16795 interested Mon, 03 Jan 2011 18:02:44 +0000 http://philtheone.com/?p=1308#comment-16795 Phil doesn’t try to remain neutral he just puts forward his views and then lets people debate and disagree with them. Phil doesn’t try to remain neutral he just puts forward his views and then lets people debate and disagree with them.

]]> By: Cardy http://philtheone.com/2010/01/binge-drinking-voters-get-2-for-1-booze-ban/#comment-16784 Cardy Mon, 03 Jan 2011 17:02:20 +0000 http://philtheone.com/?p=1308#comment-16784 Philtheone# I admire your efforts to remain neutral however your final highly biased paragraphs let you down badly. Was it Labours fault that the American market imploded and caused the stock market crash? Was it Labours fault that the Tory party signed away our legislative rights to the EU and the Echr? The increase in anti-social behavior can be directly attributed to human rights and action groups like Liberty The joy of responding to your post is that a full year has passed and the Tory party are in power in the last month unemployment figures rose 35,000 and we have vat rises, fear about rising inflation and interest rates with many homes in negative equity,tax increases and tuition fees rises. Im sure this is all Labours fault but dont the comparisons of both parties sound very similar Philtheone# I admire your efforts to remain neutral however your final highly biased paragraphs let you down badly. Was it Labours fault that the American market imploded and caused the stock market crash? Was it Labours fault that the Tory party signed away our legislative rights to the EU and the Echr? The increase in anti-social behavior can be directly attributed to human rights and action groups like Liberty
The joy of responding to your post is that a full year has passed and the Tory party are in power in the last month unemployment figures rose 35,000 and we have vat rises, fear about rising inflation and interest rates with many homes in negative equity,tax increases and tuition fees rises. Im sure this is all Labours fault but dont the comparisons of both parties sound very similar

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