Texas based Canatxx Energy Ventures has been wanting to store natural gas under the River Wyre for a few years now and has returned to the planning table despite the Government throwing out their first draft in 2007.
They want to create voluminous cavities within the salt strata 300-400m below the surface in order to store pressurized natural gas. These cavities will be piped directly into the National Transmission System so they can be called upon during surges in demand.
Cavities are created by pumping water into the salt to dissolve it, then pumping the salt solution out, leaving a big hole.
Britain’s own gas production is in decline and one fifth of Britain’s gas is now directly piped from Norway. During the recent cold snap, ice accumulated in the 685 mile long Langeled sub-sea pipeline (known as “Britpipe”) that links the Ormon Lange gas field in Norway to the gas terminal at Easington near Hull, meaning that the volume of gas from Norway was significantly reduced and emergency supplies had to be imported because of a lack of local gas storage.
That’s what the Canatxx project is all about; to create storage for situations such as this, because it costs less for the companies to get gas into the system at short notice and as a result costs less for the consumer.
As I mentioned, Langeled pumps 20% of Britain’s gas, which equates to 25.5 billion cubic metres per year. Due to the decline in North Sea gas production, it’s reported that Britain will import 80% of its gas by 2020. The proposal from Canatxx is to store 1.7 billion cubic metres in the unmined salt strata under Preesall: enough gas to power the whole of Britain for 4 days. So, quite a lot.
But there has been an ongoing campaign from local residents who don’t want gas stored in this area. They are reportedly worried that the underground salt caverns cannot hold the gas safely and fear explosions.
Joan Humble has stepped into the ring to proffer some of her exciting words of wisdom on this issue. Except she failed to do so, only confirming that it was a nimby issue and that they were clutching at straws because they know the plan will go ahead.
That’s not the end of the Labour involvement, though. Joan Humble might not like it but it was revealed in 2008 that Jack Straw had accepted and kept secret for 4 years a £3,000 gift from Canatxx at a time at which it was seeking planning permission for this project – from a Labour controlled council. Sounds awfully familiar. All I can say is Jack Straw is obviously cheaper than Blackpool South Conservatives.
There is an “Against Cantaxx” protest group on Facebook which you can check out here. No, that isn’t my spelling error, that’s how they have spelt it.
I don’t see what the worry is to be honest, but then I don’t live near there. I do know that there are over 600 of these gas storage facilities around the world and none have gone boom yet, and according to the Health and Safety Executive – the same one whose nannyish regulations forced Ilfracombe Rugby Club to show a video of a bonfire rather than have an actual fire on Bonfire Night - storing highly flammable gas in pressurised halite caverns is perfectly safe.
It’s a bit hysterical to suggest that it might happen but given the prominence of fire and arson in Blackpool, Fylde and Wyre lately I would much rather have gas stored 400 metres underground surrounded by hundreds of feet of impervious material than in gas silos on the surface.
Actually I rather agree with the NIMBYs. If it is safe, then it’ll be passed on appeal anyway – but would you be happy living on top of a potential bomb? Surely overground storage facilities with clear vision, cctv, security to make sure anyone within several miles of the things is monitored properly would make this all very much more secure. Once it’s underground you wouldn’t notice a suicidal terrorist scuba diving travelling towards it so easily, nor would it be so easy to spot any leaks.
But one of the things to note is that this gas will need to be processed to be used – and this will happen not on the Fylde coast but on Anglesey via a pipeline. So Anglesey gets the benefits and Fylde gets the worst bits. And the Norwegian supply pipe problem would surely reoccur with the pipeline going to Wales if there was an extreme cold snap?
The dodgy donation to Jack Straw comes as no surprise. He has been best friends with “Lord” Taylor for decades and isn’t he employed by Canatxx despite never having anything to do with anything but politics and not even being very bright?
Okay first point is that nobody lives near it. Secondly no terrorist can get to the gas because it’s in unmined salt strata which are basically layers of rock salt between layers of harder rock.
Rock salt does not leak gas which is why it’s the only underground solution – aside from former gas and oil fields – that is permitted for gas storage.
People seem to think it’s the mines that are being filled with gas when it isn’t. It’s the unmined rock salt below all that. (Yes, natural reserves of grit right on our doorstep!)
They are drilling down several hundred metres, and the surface exposure will be whatever holes they dig. It won’t be possible for a terrorist to drop sticks of dynamite into it or anything, and its far easier to secure a small surface operation (which is what this will be) than a large one.
The Anglesey gas terminal is already there and has been operated by Shell for years for another purpose. Anglesey is used to receive gas in liquid form which it will then pump to Preesall in gas form.
I’m not sure how you class it as a benefit. Can you imagine the uproar if a gas terminal was plonked next to the Shard Inn over Wyre. The A585 can’t cope as it is!
As for ice in the pipe, well it’s just a 70 mile pipe from Anglesey to Preesall and the temperatures aren’t as cold as northern Norway. Plus I suspect lessons will have been learned from that.
“Okay first point is that nobody lives near it.”
There are thousands of people living within three miles of the proposed storage Philtheone. So I don’t hink you know very much about this. YOU’d be a NIMBY if you lived that close to 1.2 million tonnes of gas!
That’s where you’re wrong.
If there gas facilities had a problem with explosions, one we would be hearing about it and two these underground storage systems would be banned.
As it happens, there are a few of these knocking around the UK and around the world.
Next you’ll be telling me you won’t go to a petrol station because there are tens of thousands of litres of petrol under it, but in reality you probably live near several and visit one every few days.
You probably drive a car carrying 60 litres of highly flammable liquid or even gas that could – if there was any truth supporting the hysteria – blow up any time.
Given that you’re in far closer proximity to other flammable substances for most of your life, what’s so significant about this gas storage that makes it more dangerous than the real world examples I have given?
Given that there are far more safe storage proposals around the UK i.e. empty oil caverns, and that you are saying so much “for” the gas proposals – I would say that Dennis Volter and Canatxx have paid you money and fed you only their side of the issue – like they have so many other people! Been there, done that!
I wish.
The only negative is the NIMBY argument. That’s why there’s so much “for”.
The Health and Safety Executive has said its safe, therefore it’s safe. If you trust them on everything else, why not trust them on this? What’s so special about this project that is inherently dangerous?
Hi Frustrated.
Would you be surprised to know that there the same salt deposits are under your home in Fairhaven.
Yes the same salt field and it strectches that far.
This brings a whole new light to Hamish Howitts anti smoking ban dribble.
From “They work for you” re Lord Taylor:
Voting record (from PublicWhip)
How Lord Taylor of Blackburn voted on key issues since 2001:
Voted very strongly for introducing ID cards. votes, speeches
Voted moderately against the hunting ban. votes, speeches
Voted very strongly for equal gay rights. votes, speeches
Voted very strongly against laws to stop climate change.
Now I wonder why someone who’s been a paid advisor to Canatxx would be against climate change legislation?
Oh yeah, doesn’t he have dodgy links with BAe Systems as well?
I agree with the protesters on this one. I have a friend who lives Over Wyre who mentioned that an explosion of this facility would cover a massive area and could wipe out nearly the entire Fylde Coast. They were only even allowed to reapply because of changes to the planning laws. I just wish Canatxx would go away somewhere else.
Like where? There are only a few suitable locations in the UK for this.
Here’s the document prepared for the HSE about it.
If I had my way I would stick under Preston, although I know that’s not practical really. But anywhere but the Fylde Coast as far as I am concerned.
Under the house of commons!
Abbeystead! nuff said
Personally I hope it goes there.Why? Over wyre concillors and their paedo friends on wyre council make planning decsions to dump houses on us in Fwood/Thornton,they have had it easy.
I hope it goes up taking the lot of these shit bag cunts with them.
OK – so if the geology’s right and there is absolutely no chance of it leaking or terrorists being able to blow it up I’m for it. Of course we’d be better off with more stored gas as a country. But I’m not sure all that has been sorted out properly and I do know those responsible for ensuring so will be well out of the way of any blast.
And my only real life experience of geology in action was the Manchester “eartquakes” – the Commonwealth games stadium was being converted into the Man City ground and on excavation they found out that the mines were no longer flooded. So things do go wrong as it’s not that easy to tell what’s going on underground when you can’t see it.
The “benefit” of the processing of the gas is obviously jobs. I’m sure there are plenty in the OverWyre area that need them more than the people on Anglesey.
Well, their surface operation will be manned 24/7 according to their website so I’m not sure that’s entirely right.
I get the impression you think they’re filling the mines with gas. They’re not. They’re drilling down into virgin salt pockets and creating pressure vessels within the rock salt. It appears there are lots of them there already created by ICI in the 1960′s.
From what I gather, it isnt one huge vessel containing 60 billion cubic feet of gas, it is a lot of smaller vessels, presumably meaning that if one blows up for any reason the others wont.
But we’re talking 1000 feet underground here, encased in rock salt which is impervious to gas. If someone wanted to blow it up they’d have to subvert security, remove all the equipment including the 1000ft pipe into the gas cavern and then drop a naked flame down there. Without anyone noticing.
Not realistic, particularly if there’s no oxygen down there because surely the flame would go out anyway.
Abbeystead was totally different, it was a water pumping demo that went wrong due to naturally occurring gas that whomever planned it didnt know about. It was also long before all these uppity HSE people were strutting around, and as a result people were even allowed to smoke and discard cigarettes on-site.
I’m confused as to why there’s this assumption that it is going to explode. There are already a few of these in the UK and 600 around the world and none have had any problems like that.
Worried about the threat of terrorists blowing it up?…
Must lead a very sheltered life.. what with all the buses and public transport that them’ thar terrorists are always blowing up.
If the extremist groups aim is to kill as many people as possible.. and so far theyve only blown up a bus and a subway in london.. and ignored all the mass events held constantly everywhere else in britain… Id say Preesall is probably one of the safest places, notwithstanding the fact that it wouldnt be possible.
And along with the whole 100 metre depth of the pipe.
Lets say… a mythical spark creating creature actually did exist, and burrowed its way down through the salt deposits… for 100 metres.. then reached the pipe… then boared through the thick metal of the pipe, then sparked off and an explosion did occour.
The coffee on my desk wouldnt even know.
I think we have to also entertain the prospect that terrorists might also want to bring the country to its knees by cutting off our gas – you could kill a lot more people by freezing them to death at certain times of the year than blowing them up on buses and tubes in London. And do they actually have to get to the source or could a big enough bomb not set it all off. Blackpool might be seen as a good seedy target for extreme islamic terrorists so you never know where they might strike. (But if any terrorist reads this we aren’t anywhere near as seedy as our cities and it’s against the Koran to kill I’m sure). Fortunately it would be a lot harder to achieve so hopefully no-one will have a go.
Having lived in London during the height of the IRA bombing attacks and I was supposed to be in Manchester when that bomb went off (but fortunately wasn’t) I suppose I take terrorist threats quite seriously.
The terrorist threat is a serious one, but I can’t see why they’d want to blow up underground backup gas tanks. Blowing up a gas terminal would achieve a lot more chaos.
Even if they did blow this thing up, nobody would die, we’d just get a bit of subsidance.
Storage facilities like this will be needed unless you want to give the shirt off your back for gas supplies in the future, since our active production is falling. We only produce 39% of our own gas now, and it’s forecast to drop to 20% by 2020.
Theres something about terrorists cutting off gas so that we all freeze to death thats all… un-terrorist like. I think its just bombs or nothing. And if you happen to be in a place where one goes off, thats rather unfortunate
Yeah, it’s more of a James Bond style of terrorist that. Then once everyone had frozen they’d get lasered from space by a weapons satellite.
No Mr Bond…. I Expect you to die!
I see the Fleetwood NIMBY brigade are trying to halt progress again. Its not up on the website but in today’s Gazette there is a story about Mike Simmons (aka Joey Blower) who has his own property development company and his exciting, brilliant looking plans for the old Fleetwood Pier site. He plans a modern Art-Deco hotel with bars and restaurants to coincide with other Fleetwood regeneration projects. But the NIMBYs are objecting again. Fleetwood is a nice place I like going up there on my bike but it is a town direly in need of some proper regeneration and this plan is the best they are going to get. Tom Norton the local ‘town action something or other’ moans ‘this area was always earmarked for leisure for the kids’. Move with the times man the pier is gone and noone wants to rebuild it but a developer has the vision and capital to bring something exciting and you block it. Then local Labour mouthpiece Clive Gruntshaw said ‘A hotel will block the view of Morecambe Bay’. I don’t understand this ludicrous statement. There is miles of seafront in Fleetwood to admire the views of Morecambe Bay the old pier site is only a small area and what view was there when the pier was there because you couldn’t go to the end of the pier even when it still stood. I strongly hope Wyre Council approve these plans because they are vital and progressive for Fleetwood. Or would the NIMBYs rather the site just remained derelict?
That new fleetwood council aint worth its weight in dehydrated fly shit,another layer of wank useless councillors.
Modern Art Deco sounds great and would certainly fit into the historical architecture of the area – if he can get enough people to stay to make it stay in business and it doesn’t become a derelict eyesore of some kind 10 years down the line. You don’t have a planning right to a view – people really do need to learn that. And if it’s still a reasonably pleasant view like an Art Deco hotel they should count themselves very lucky.
Well said I have seen the artist’s impression and it looks great. Very good point about the view. Personally when I go to Fleetwood I think there are better places than the pier to get views of Morecambe Bay anyway like actually going on the beach. I think Gruntshaw just wants something to moan about.
Gruntshaw, now theres another cunt!
It is good to see continued support for this project. I live locally and I am satisfied that this project, that is so desperately required, is safe. So is the HSE. This type of fast response storage differs from the long term type of storage offered by depleted oil & gas fields. It is this type that is required for instant response at times of peak demand.