Comments on: Tram upgrade derailed in planning debacle

By: Frustrated

Frustrated — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 10:17:30 +0000

Zim – I’ve always believed the trams make losses as that is what was said in the Directors’ report in the 31/03/08 year end Blackpool Transport accounts. However you also have to take into account the various closures during any period as there have been a lot in recent years – hence I wouldn’t want to say 100% for sure that the tram system couldn’t be able to be made to pay its way.
I’m not a public transport expert – but I must agree that Blackpool needs great improvement in this area. And without it regeneration is never going to really work.

By: Shoggy

Shoggy — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:21:47 +0000

As stated previously the letters of objection seem to have been removed.

Within one of many communications I received the main criteria of planning should all have been met as stated in a emailed response ( were they carried out and undertaken prior to final application being assessed ) ?.

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APPLICATION NUMBER: 09/0426
Please quote this number on all correspondence.
Proposal: Erection of tram maintenance and storage building with associated plant buildings, tram wash, sanding station, sand silo, substation, communications mast, car parking, landscaping and boundary treatment.

Location: LAND AT STARR GATE, NEW SOUTH PROMENADE

You made comments on this application and I can inform you the proposal was considered on 03/07/2009 . The decision and imposed conditions and/or reasons are as follows.

Decision : Grant Permission

Conditions/Reasons
1
The development hereby permitted shall be begun before the expiration of three years from the date of this permission.

Reason: Required to be imposed pursuant to Section 91 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 (as amended).

2
Details of materials to be used on all external surfaces shall be submitted to and agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority prior to the development being commenced.

Reason: In the interests of the appearance of the locality, in accordance with Policy LQ14 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

3
Details of the surfacing materials to be used shall be submitted to and agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority prior to the commencement of the development.

Reason: In the interests of the appearance of the locality, in accordance with Policy LQ1 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016

4
Before the development hereby permitted is first commenced, the details of the boundary treatment indicated on drawing no. 3290099 (2-) 51 shall be submitted to and agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority and this agreed treatment shall then be provided as part of the development.

Reason: In the interests of the appearance of the locality, in accordance with Policy LQ1 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

5
a) No development shall take place until full details of both hard and soft landscaping works have been submitted to and approved in writing by the Local Planning Authority. These details shall include any proposed changes to existing
ground levels, means of enclosure and boundary treatment, areas of soft landscaping, hard surfaced areas and materials, planting plans specifications and schedules (including plant size, species and number/ densities), and shall show how
account has been taken of any underground services.

b) The landscaping works shall be carried out in accordance with the approved details within the first planting season following completion of the development hereby approved or in accordance with a programme agreed in writing by the Local
Planning Authority (whichever is sooner.)

c) Any trees or shrubs planted in accordance with this condition which are removed, uprooted, destroyed, die, or become severely damaged or seriously diseased within 5 years of planting shall be replaced within the next planting season by trees or shrubs of similar size and species to those originally required to be planted, unless the Local Planning Authority gives its written consent to any variation.

Reason. To ensure the site is satisfactorily landscaped in the interests of visual amenity and to ensure there are adequate areas of soft landscaping to act as a soakaway during times of heavy rainfall with regards to Policy LQ6 of the Blackpool
Local Plan 2001-2016.

6
No development shall be commenced until a desk study has been undertaken and agreed in writing with the Local Planning Authority to investigate and produce an assessment of the risk of the potential for on site contamination. If the desk study
identifies potential contamination, a detailed site investigation shall be carried out in accordance with a written methodology, which shall first have been agreed in writing
with the Local Planning Authority. If remediation methods are then considered necessary, a scheme for decontamination of the site shall be submitted to and approved by the Local Planning Authority. The approved scheme shall be implemented and completed prior to the commencement of the development. Any changes to the approved scheme shall be agreed in writing with the Local Planning Authority.

Reason: To ensure a safe form of development that poses no unacceptable risk of pollution to water resources or to human health and in accordance with Policy BH4 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

7
Prior to the development hereby approved being first brought into use the car parking provision shown on the approved plans shall be provided and shall thereafter be retained.

Reason: In the interests of ensuring adequate parking provision at the site to serve the needs of the development in accordance with Policy AS1 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

8
Prior to the development hereby approved being commenced, details of the cycle storage provision shown on the approved plans shall submitted to and agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority and this agreed provision shall be put in
place before the development is first brought into use and thereafter retained.

Reason: To enable access to and from the property by sustainable transport mode, in accordance with Policy AS1 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

9
Prior to the development hereby approved being first brought into use the refuse storage provision shown on the approved plans shall be provided and shall thereafter be retained.

Reason: To enable access to and from the property by sustainable transport mode, in accordance with Policy AS1 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

10
Notwithstanding the details shown on the plans hereby approved, final schemes for the provision of lighting, tram signalling and catinery supports shall be submitted to
and agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority prior to the commencement of the development hereby permitted.

Reason: To limit the visual clutter at the site in the interests of the appearance of thedevelopment in accordance with Policy LQ1 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

11
The wash plant and sand plant shall not be used outside the hours of 8am to 8pm Monday to Friday, 9am to 8pm on Saturdays and 10am to 7pm on Sundays and Bank Holidays.

Reason: To safeguard the living conditions of the occupants of nearby residential premises, in accordance with Policy BH3 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

12
Other than to allow the initial release of trams in the morning and the final stabling of trams at night, all external doors to the main depot building shall be kept closed outside the hours of 8am to 8pm Monday to Friday, 9am to 8pm on a Saturday and 10am to 7pm on Sundays and Bank Holidays.

Reason: To safeguard the living conditions of the occupants of nearby residential premises, in accordance with Policy BH3 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

13
Before the development hereby permitted is first brought into use a Site Management Plan shall be submitted to and agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority. This Management Plan shall include details on the hours of operation of the site, the shift patterns of tramway workers at the site, the provisions for the mainenance of the site, the provisions for the storage and collection of equipment and waste at the site and details of deliveries, the operation of CCTV and the
provision of appropriate lighting. The agreed Site Management Plan shall then be implemented at all times when the development hereby approved is in operation.

Reason: In the interests of safeguarding the residential amenity of the occupants of nearby properties in accordance with Policy BH3 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

14
Before any demolition takes place on the site, a survey into the presence of protected species on the site (particularly bats) shall be conducted and submitted to the Local Planning Authority.

Reason: to ensure that the proposed development would not disturb or displace any protected species in accordance with Policy NE6 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

15
Before the development hereby permitted is first commenced, Project Plan shall be submitted to and agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority. This plan shall include hours of work and details of necessary measures to mitigate impact on surrounding habitats. These measures shall include provision of a solid barrier to be erected around the site during the construction period to protect the neighbouring sand dune habitiat, and the restriction of any construction taking place in the period September to March to daylight hours.

Reason: in the interests of the amenity of local residents and to prevent the disturbance of protected species and/or damage of protected environments in accordance with Policies BH3, NE4, NE5 and NE6 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

16
Prior to the development hereby approved being commenced, details of the materials and the opening and closing mechanisms of the external doors to the depot building shall submitted to and agreed in writing by the Local Planning
Authority.

Reason: To minimise potential noise disturbance to safeguard the residential amenity of the occupants of nearby houses in accordance with Policy BH3 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

17
Prior to the development hereby approved being commenced, details of a screen to surround the sand silo shall submitted to and agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority and this agreed screen shall be put in place before the development is first brought into use and thereafter retained.

Reason: In the interests of the appearance of the site in accordance with Policy LQ1 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

18
Prior to the development hereby approved being commenced, details of the cycle access between the Squires Gate Lane/Clifton Drive/New South Promenade junction and the Promenade Jubilee cycleway shall submitted to and agreed in
writing by the Local Planning Authority. The agreed access shall then be provided before the development hereby permitted is first brought into use.

Reason: To safeguard the cycle route in the interest of promoting travel by a sustainable transport mode in accordance with Policy AS3 of the Blackpool Local
Plan 2001-2016.

19
The development shall not be brought into use until a travel plan for the wider Blackpool Transport Services operation has been submitted to and approved in writing by the Local Planning Authority. No part of the development shall be occupied prior to the implementation of the Approved Travel Plan (or implementation of those parts identified in the Approved Travel Plan as capable of being implemented prior to occupation). Those parts of the Approved Travel Plan that are identified therein as being capable of implementation after occupation shall be implemented in accordance with the
timetable therein and shall continue to be implemented as long as any part of the development is occupied.

Reason: In order to ensure appropriate provision exists for safe and convenient access by public transport, cycle, and on foot as well as by car, in accordance with Policy AS1 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001 – 2016.

20
Nothwithstanding the details shown on drawing numbers 3290099 (2-) 48 Rev B, 3290099 (2-) 46 Rev E and 3290099 (2-) 47 Rev A, a scheme for the return of thecladding from the eastern elevation onto the northern elevation shall be submitted to and agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority before the development is first commenced. The agreed elevations shall then form part of the proposal hereby
approved in place of those shown on the plans listed above.

Reason: To ensure continuity and integration between the elevations to achieve a high standard of design in accordance with Policies LQ1 and LQ4 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

21
A parking survey to assess the need for a managed parking scheme to be operated in the nearby area shall be conducted in the area in accordance with a methodology to be agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority, the results of this survey shall then be submitted to and any necessary measures agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority and undertaken before the development hereby approved is first brought into use.

Reason: To ensure that local on-street parking provision is available in the interests of the amenity of local residents and in the interest of highway safety in accordance with Policies BH3 and AS1 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001-2016.

REASONS FOR DECISION
1 The development proposed has been considered in relation to Policies RR12, LQ1,LQ2, LQ3, LQ4, LQ5, LQ6, LQ7, LQ15, BH3, NE4, NE5, NE6, NE9, NE10, AS1 and AS4 of the Blackpool Local Plan 2001 – 2016 and is in accordance with those
policies and there are no other material considerations which weigh sufficiently against the proposal such as to warrant refusal.

ADVICE NOTES TO DEVELOPER
1. Please note this approval relates specifically to the details indicated on the approved plans and documents, and to the requirement to satisfy all conditions of the approval. Any variation from this approval need to be agreed in writing by the Local Planning Authority prior to works commencing and may require the submission of a revised application. Any works carried out without such written agreement or approval would render the development as unauthorised and liable to
legal proceedings.

2. A safety audit should be carried out on the internal access road shown on drawing no. 3290099 (2-) 51. Any alterations to the approved plans shown as being required by this safety audit must be agreed in writing by the Local Planning
Authority and the works carried out before the development hereby permitted is first brought into use.

By: stephen Pierre

stephen Pierre — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 02:01:13 +0000

Zim,please do get your facts right I have not quoted excact loss figures I have referred to the losses in general terms of the Tramway. Ofcourse the OAP travel has had a major blow to BTS as a whole. Blackpool inherits a double loss because of the tramway is not included in the free fares ultimately losses passengers numbers and becasue BTS is a wholly owned undertaking of the Council. Nevertheless prior to the free travel on buses the trams it still did run at a loss. Blackpool is a seaside town and I don’t expect the trams to make a profit in the winter along the promenade with such an isolated route, however in the good old days the healthy summer revenue gainedwould balance out over the financial year. Now I do not think every public service should be about making mega bucks, if the service is of a major advantage to a wide range of passengers, business and schools etc, and operated reasonably competitive I am all for it!! The past 10 years that has not been the case. I don’t beleive that Blackpool needed a 10-15 year or more super tram planning of the prom route as it is already in place. What you will also find outside the Foxhall Pub along the new tracks are the spurs in the rails which would have directed the trams into Blundell Street entrance. Why were these spurs fitted inreadiness in Feb 2008? Had the new Depot been in construction or modernisation at Rigby Road in my view there was a some hope that the project could have been delivered on time on budget, with the funding deadline etc, without the Council having to get embriolled in seems according to a High Court a legitimate dispute which could turn out to be a costly mistake if those that do not want the tramway to close in 2018. Is the end of the line for the iron road? if it is I will personally be upset like many other people no doubt will. It was sad to see the very last London Route Masters run in regular service, again they were not disabled friendly. The residents of Starr Gate cannot be blamed for this debacle, if delays are caused or the money is lost due to alleged unlawfull practice. Blackpool Council have 125 years superlative experience of operating a tramway.

By: Zim Flyer

Zim Flyer — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:54:45 +0000

Hi Frustrated, the reason why I wanted to see the figures is Stephen keeps quoting them but doesn’t actually know what they are. It sounds to me the more you repeat a lie the more you begin to believe it.

Blackpool Transport until last year with the introduction of free bus passes for the elderly made a profit. It’s the bus pass that is the issue not the trams.

As regards the public enquiries that Stephen loves so much, for the Croydon and Nottingham systems they took up to ten years by which time the costs had gone up so much we were lucky they weren’t cancelled as was the case with the Leeds and Liverpool proposed Tram systems. Planning in this country is a mess which is why most of mainland Europe builds high speed railway and tram lines whilst we just talk about it.

By: Frustrated

Frustrated — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:37:13 +0000

Zim – have you seen the Blackpool Transport accounts? I downloaded the March 2008 ones a wayback – it’s about £1 from the Companies House webcheck service though Blackpool council should supply you with accounts for free and the 2009 ones should be filed now. (Steve Thompson, Chief Financial Officer, PO Box 4, Town Hall, Blackpool FY1 1NA)
It’s quite clear all the way through with the comments made in the Directors’ Report for a start that the trams are struggling financially with the fall in tourist numbers (not that closing the line helps either).
You can always try a FOI Act request of course re the tram figures.

By: Gypskrieg! « Philtheone.com

Gypskrieg! « Philtheone.com — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 13:25:14 +0000

[...] talked about the Starr Gate tram depot the other day and the opposition to it from local residents who [...]

By: stephen Pierre

stephen Pierre — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:56:42 +0000

Zim, it is common knowledge that the Blackpool Tramway operates at a loss you should know that. Should you wish to obtain the exact figures loss and expenditure spread sheet my best advise is to contact Mr Trevor Roberts BTS MD, or the Town Hall Bosses, who clearly are the real executives and decision makers when it comes to the tramway. Whether you will receive this clarification to your satisfaction without prejudice I cannot guarantee!! The planning of the Croydon Tramlink involved huge intergration of several different councils, transport companies, highway agencies etc, and no doubt the planning period was extensive and took time for the job to be done properly. One thing is for sure the system is a total success and is used as a serious form of Public Transport by a wide range of different passengers. Blackpool several years ago had an advantage over the Croydon system because they had the infrastructure already in place albeit old and in need of renewal but nevertheless still up and running. The planning of the supertrams or new Depot works should have been a far more straight forward task than Croydon. I would like to think Blackpool officals had ample time to do thier PPPPPPP. In showbuisness remember the old saying “Prior preperation prevents a piss poor performance”

By: Zim Flyer

Zim Flyer — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 21:22:11 +0000

Stephen do you know how long the planning process took for the Croydon Tram system, do you really think such a lengthy planning system is good for this country?

By the way, you keep saying the tram system makes a loss, could you give me the exact figures?

By: stephen Pierre

stephen Pierre — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:31:15 +0000

Zim, it is not even half a mile to North Station from Talbot Square. This extention was rumoured in the 1970′s/80′s when the tram way was making a steady profit!! it never happened. Why? When the London Tramlink was only a pipe dream, all local authorites involved held meetings with the public, estimated passenger surveys were undertaken, drop in centres with detailed information was availble, Q and A sessions took place. Has this kind of transperency happend over the Super Tram and the Starr Gate Depot. It appears not. Several high ranking Council officials would take more than a dim view if a 40ft Industrial Building was constructed without full and proper consultation in front of residential desirable houses adjacent to Stanley Park. It is not about hating the trams its about good ethics and standards and plain common sense.

By: Zim Flyer

Zim Flyer — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 19:08:59 +0000

Stephen, how much do think it will cost to build the line to Blackpool North, it’s only half a mile long. At a guestimate I would say we are looking at 30 million give or take. Between Blackpool Council, Lancashire Council and the European Investment Bank the money could be borrowed, just as Manchester are borrowing the money for phase B of their extension.

Future extensions could run on ultra light rail, thus cutting the cost down further, never say never is the Zim Flyer motto.