Fleetwood; once a thriving fishing port and seaside resort, but now a much quieter town. Its fishing industry has declined massively, no thanks to the EU and it is not the thriving tourist town it once was.
However negatives aside Fleetwood is a very nice town, I enjoying riding up there on my bike quite often and I love nothing more than admiring the view from atop The Mount, visiting the hidden gem Fleetwood Museum (I strongly recommend if you have never been), visiting Tram Sunday and enjoying the scenic ride along the Promenade from Cleveleys.
The only trouble is from an economical point of view Fleetwood has falled on hard times. This was not helped by the destruction of Fleetwood Pier by a fire in September 2008. The pier was once itself a thriving attraction, I used to enjoy visiting the arcade with the 2p slot machines, hours of fun without losing much money!!! There was also a nice cafe and if I remember rightly there was even a bar/nightclub as well. But it had descended into a derelict eyesore for its last 2 or 3 years of its existence. Before its demise it was used for nothing but pier jumpers and anglers. A once great structure was nothing but a wasteland effectively. Being from Blackpool and being a lover of the seaside I like good old-fashioned piers and I am sad to see Fleetwood Pier go. But there comes a time to move on.
Simmo Developments owned by Mike Simmons (aka Joey Blower) has exciting (but controversial) plans to develop the old pier site as a modern art-deco hotel complex. I strongly support these plans as I want to see Fleetwood become a successful town once again and it needs modern attractive facilities to bring the town into the 21st century.
However there is much opposition to the plans which I personally do not understand. Protesters are making claims such as ‘it wil block the view of the sea’, well what did the Pier do when it was there? Fleetwood Promenade stretches for miles, one hotel isn’t going to block people’s views, personally I find that argument rather unfounded. Besides you get a better view from The Mount in my experience.
I respect that the protesters are fully entitled to their views, but I cannot say I support them. I believe they are opposing progress in Fleetwood which I feel is strongly needed. It has been made crystal clear the pier is not coming back, so Fleetwood should embrace this opportunity to move on and modernise, not oppose regeneration and investment. I only wish private developers would show as much interest in Blackpool.
I wish Simmo Developments the best of luck with their application because they can count on my support for a better Fleetwood, the plans look and sound fantastic from what I have seen.
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Nice article TB.Fleetwood has massive potential for its size.It suffers from poor access, ie the over capacity A585 and it used have 2 rail stations with a DIRECT link to London.WBC ,as always ,and with no surprisse to me, have yet to grasp the idea that the towns success relies on reopening the rail link and using that for boat trips to the Isle of Man.A friend of mine who is much more polite than me ,has mentioned the idea to the relevant authorities but with no success.Again,its an example of what happens when you take away a rail link.Maxine Calllow take note, (assuming you can read!).
Some years a ago a business man (USA?) wanted to invest millions in an expansion of Freeport but those bastards in Blackpool council blocked it.Its standard for that council,”We cant sort out our problems, so why should we let you?” is their motto.
I beleive that the oppositins stems from WBCs intentions (hidden) tio change the lease on the pier site so it can be used for NON RECREATIONAL use; to be fair I can understand that.I just dont and wont trust WBC period, I speak form bitter experience there.
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That’s something I forgot to mention the Fleetwood railway, I support the reopening, the best thing is most of the lines are already in situ. That would be a definite boost as would a regular Isle of Man service. The EU has helped destroy the Fleetwood (and British) fishing industry, so more regular ferry services would be a definite boost. I don’t understand why in the world Blackpool Council blocked expansion of Freeport. Its not as though Freeport is a threat to Blackpool town centre, they are two different places.
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WBC is very quick to make the situation of traffic congestion worse, but slow to sort out the railway.3 reports have all said it should reopen and WBC have so far DONE NOTHING to do that,in Todmorden they are reopening a curve to reinsttae their railway;WBC take note, DO SOMETHING!
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The fishing industry was destroyed in part by its own successes and their unwillingness to restrict themselves. The EU (or the EEC at the time)stepped in or there would be no fish left full stop really. This moved was supported by the UK government of the time in an attempted to increase the fish stock it is still a long way to go. I know people can argue that allowing European fishers to come into traditionally UK waters to fish didn’t help but in large part they were international waters so they did have every right. You have to agree with the government of the time best not going to war to stop these acts but I am a bit of a pacifist so I could be wrong. BNP have said that to protect British fishing they would send in the navy perhaps their right.
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Have we got a navy left? lol
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One of the many problems with the EU is it allows large foreign owned factory ships to fish in our waters, better to regain soveignty over our waters and then fully control which ships and which fishing methods they use to fish in those waters.
Re the railway line to Fleetwood I would love to see it opened and maybe with the LibDem transport policy which they announced a few days ago it could be possible. That said in the short term I think the best way of getting direct railway access to the people of Cleveleys and Fleetwood is to extend the Tram line from the North Pier to Blackpool North railway station.
If anything the upgraded tram line should be a great asset for Fleetwood, there aren’t many high streets in the UK with a state of the art tram line running down them, so to link that up to a major railhub would be Fleetwood’s gain.
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Hi Zim there was a plan a number of yaers ago to do just that link the line to the trams;it fell through?
In fact many years ago the line was connected to trans via a spur which cut across copse rd, I have seen it on old maps of Fleetwood,coal wagons were shunted across it and stored up at Cleveleys at thornton gate.
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http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/fleetwood-news/Double-delight-for-hotel-plan.6212431.jp
developments for you TB.
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If you read the comments TB, theres a lot of anger against WBC for they way Fleetwood has been treated over the years; I dont blame them for I detest WBC who are the vilest scum of the earth.
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can i just ask if the railway was to be re-opened and run to fleetwood where would the stations be put and where would all the vehicles going to thease stations park?. i for one would not want them parking in my street. there are many questions to be asked before we start thinking of opening up railway lines.
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Of course there should be, I am sure they will have to carry out a full feasibility study before anything happens, I think there is actually one underway by Network Rail actually.
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A study for opening rail station at Fleetwood has been done it does seem unfeasible to do this. Some of the difficulties would mean demolishing a bridge (where most of the traffic to Fleetwood takes). Building another one because the present one has been filled to support it and to drive rail lines through it you would weaken it to much to take traffic. Relaying lines from Thornton to Fleetwood would pose problems as there would need to be a manned signal box because rail lines crossing road (there is no rail line running to Fleetwood). Next question where would this station head be located there isn’t much reasonable room for it the Ice Plant was suggested but that would effect that companies business (which may cause it to close this at present may not be the best idea). Are these difficulties insurmountable the answer at present is sadly yes.
As TB said there was a rail study done some years ago now but the difficulties haven’t changed.
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Thanks for the info John
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The envisaged station is near Herring arm rd,near the rounadout on the A585.
I agree about all the issues but progress has been incredibly slow,especially when you look at other areas.the line curently ends behind Cala Gran caravan site but the track bed remains all the way to old power station site.
I dont believe PWRs should be allowed near that line, they are a joke.
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Interesting information John, thanks. So renewing railways is basically out of the window.
What other options are there?
In terms of moving people, if the trams linked up to Blackpool North that’s one option although it’s very far from ideal!
In terms of freight, well, truck, truck or truck? Paul Maynard told me about some funding channel that was available to Fleetwood with it being a port. The intention being that all ports should be “linked up” for want of a better word. This funding channel is something he intends to look at with a view to securing some investment into the A585 and hopefully making it fit for purpose.
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Phil ,railways are certainly not out of the window but still very much in.I have heard that yet another report is being compiled with a view to approaching LCC for funding.
My councillor sits on the commitee that is responsible for this.
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Harold right Phil its not all together out renewing the line into Thornton all the way to burn naze can be easily done but going beyond that into Fleetwood itself would be very costly and would involve lots of traffic disruption for a reasonable time until some very major industrial building was completed (ie building a new bridge and relaying a few miles of new line). Its pipe dream to think a rail line into Fleetwood will happen and would there be a need for it?
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John, why have 3 distinct reports all agreed that the line should and can reopen?
The ATOC report places the Fleetwood line 4th from the top of the list,one of 4 (and only 4) that has a cost to benefit ratio of greater than one., that support an economic argument for reopening the line.
Your views do not correlate with the views of 2 sets of consultants and ATOC.
“Its pipe dream to think a rail line into Fleetwood will happen and would there be a need for it?”
Its a pipe dream to disagree with 3 reports, a 4th to be done shortly, all done by people whose expertise surpasses everyone on this forum.
If you think its a pipe dream,produce an expert analysis that proves your point.
You have none.
Thats not to say there are no challenges,there are BUT not insurmountable ones.
If the romans can build roads, surely in 2010 its not out of reach to restore a rail link, whose infrastucture mostly remains, unlike other lines that have been ripped up and REOPENED, in Scotland for example.
Wyre is in the bottom 3% of transport connectivity index; compiled by the Local futures Group;that implies a serious need.
Its only a matter of time as to when this line will reopen and under what kind of use.EVEN the AAP under Gary Payne envisions a restored rail link,the consulatants for that report envisaged a restored rail link.
For me, the regenertaion of Fleetwood requires a reopened rail link with a connection to the IOM ferry,to bring people in along with their money.
So where is your technical evidence that refutes 3 soon to be 4 reports, all from different experts, using various methods and by experts,which all concur 100% that the line should reopen?
I would like to know.
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Shouldve sent me that as an article, lol.
I will add that in these masterplans they always tend to include exaggerated transport links which they have no intention of pursuing.
One example is the Cypress Point link road. It was a stipulation in the planning that they build this, and look at it, its a single carriageway dangerous rat run that should really be one way.
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Another example is the Talbot Gateway, where they keep hinting at Blackpool North links for the tram system.
It wont happen, theres no money for it, no business case for it and it’s not in the real plans.
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I think you are right sadly, I am off to get pissed now but an article on the rail link will be made available sir!
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I look forward to it Harold. The only problem I have hear is my article has gone right off-topic and focused more on the railway rather than the pier, its all Fleetwood I guess but what are people’s view on the pier development?
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hope you read it all harold cost V benifit
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The business case is that it links Cleveleys and Fleetwood with a railway station which is a lot cheaper than re opening the Fleetwood railway line.
The case for extending the tram line to Blackpool North is a strong one, it just needs to be made.
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John ,what are you trying to say?
I am keen to know,if you have evidence that refutes the idea of reopening the line, please provide it before a big mistake is made???I would hate to see money wasted on a project that comes to nothing.
Do you have it?
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I have seen plans for Fleetwood and Brun Naze, where land has been set aside, as for parking at Thornton station, I agree that is a challenge, Bay horse pub?
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The envisaged fleetwood station and burn naze stations would be ok for parking BUT Thornton remains a problem.
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Fleetwood would be better served by extending the existing (disused) line to meet the Tramway.
Joining Up “The Fylde in land Tramway Express” calling @ Carla Gran/Burn Naze/Thornton/Carleton-Poulton/Carleton Crossing/Layton/Symbol/Blackpool North.
Public Transport pipedream maybe. but wouldn’t it be great.
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I am sure there was such a plan but it fell through, anyone remember it?
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Hi Harold,
was it part of the plan that Alistair Darling poo poo’d. I think this was the map of the proposed Metro system that you mention:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/lusaka/blackpool.jpg
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Thats the one Zim, cheers mate, shame it fell through.
I also remember another one about EU funding and connecting the trams to Preston?
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Funny that. We had a train line that went direct to Preston in 1903.
In 1895 we had a better tram system than we do now.
And Zim, if there’s a business case for a Blackpool North link, what is it?
The only circumstance I can see it being a benefit is if the trams are used for local transport rather than as a tourist attraction. They would need to go through residential areas and/or connect with the airport. They used to do both, but now they do neither.
A Blackpool North link to the promenade is fairly pointless in isolation.
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Phil was that the marton line? now Yeadon way?
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Phil, it’s the connection to Cleveleys and Fleetwood that is the heart of the case it would give them direct rail access which is a lot cheaper than reopening the rail line to Fleetwood.
Sure in Blackpool the line is very much a tourist line but in Cleveley’s and Fleetwood the line runs right through the heart of the two towns and has the potential if the pricing is right to carry a great number of residential journies.
I can confirm that I’ve just brought a house in Cleveleys and the plan will be where ever possible when we visit Blackpool to use the tram line to do so.
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I don’t see what the business case is though.
Bearing in mind the aging demographic, how many people in Cleveleys and Fleetwood want to use Blackpool North?
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Zim is a bit wrong there Fleetwood to Cleveleys rail link being the heart of the issue. It has never been on the cards. What is being pushed for is a link to Burn Naze in Thornton for a couple of reasons. NPL feel this would aid the redeveloping of the Brown sites they own and viability studies show that Thornton has/is becoming a commuting town. To reopen the line to Fleetwood would cost to much money and there is no evidence that the people of Fleetwood would be heavy users of the line.
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Hi John, you are right. I was talking more about the tram line then the railway line.
Another option re the railway line is to have it as a heritage line, do you know if there is much chance of this happening at all?
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For all to see, the Halcrow report from 2005 with the options.
Its worth pointing out further reports have beend one and another is pending:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:WTtYMhOj7nsJ:www.mywyre.co.uk/GetAsset.aspx%3Fid%3DfAAzADgAMwB8AHwARgBhAGwAcwBlAHwAfAA3AHwA0+reoening+fleetwood+railway&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgE6NHLKmbD4Hc4bGICwg1NAI51m7XsRkmHgNDlq4Pd0_ChkgMA-C_ZOOqYUNf3togAjeSfII3kdqRzQEd0OLxcvpH9YGL7YkP09pREzh6c79EiZs6HlcKWFbOtsJl6RyTeHNZk&sig=AHIEtbTjWEfcik–JpbEdpnygsc6F_d8Mw
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and what about the people in Fleetwood, are they all oldies who have no need to use a train. What better way to attract investment for Fleetwood to say the tram line that runs right through the heart of the town is connected to a major railway station with four trains per hour on the national network.
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That wont attract investment though. What will are transport links that benefit business, and tram lines don’t.
Getting from Fleetwood to Blackpool North is quicker by car, probably cheaper, and the type of person that would need to commute in this way would do the sensible thing and get a cab or use their car.
There is also the bus option to consider, which fulfils the same role as the tram.
Lets face it, the only reason you’d use the tram when you move here is because you like trams. I just see them as a form of transport, and they have no sentimental value to me (other than the Rocket but that got scrapped about 10 years ago I think).
If they were practical to me for getting about the Fylde, I’d use them, but they aren’t and never will be whilst they remain a single route along the promenade.
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By and large Phil, investment these days doesn’t follow cars, it follows good public transport especially fixed light rail lines which is why Manchester is investing just under a billion in extending their tram system and Nottingham is looking to extend their network.
The reason why Manchester is investing in Light rail is because where it goes it stimulates economic grown in those areas.
As petrol prices go up and in a region with low car ownership,investment in Light Rail in the Fylde will make us the envy of towns and cities across the UK. So lets start with the extension to Blackpool North, so the people of Fleetwood and Cleveleys gain direct access to a railway station and let that just be the start.
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It follows public transport within reason, yeah. Building tons of public transport for the sake of it is bonkers and thats why I think the £100m on the tram system was bonkers. It’ll never return that investment before it’s needed again.
But anyway, Fleetwood is a poor, old fashioned fishing port with above average unemployment.
Cleveleys is the urban equivalent of an old people’s home.
A tram link for people in Fleetwood to get to Blackpool North would never return the investment. A direct rail link to Fleetwood probably would provide far more benefits.
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