Apr 222010
Hosted by Sky News in Bristol, within the next hour the second Leaders’ Debate will commence.
Can Brown shine? Can Clegg keep his momentum? Will Dave’s Big Society steamroller both?
Feel free to leave your comments on the debate here!
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Both started off pretty much the same on Europe, Clegg and Brown are going on a bit about climate change. Looks like Brown and Clegg ganging up on Cameron again.
Clegg scored a cheap point about the Tories dropping the Lisbon referendum, but didn’t quote the facts – that the referendum would only happen if the treaty were not yet ratified and that there is no point in having a referendum if the treaty is implemented.
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Brown says he wants to “get on with the job” rather than give us referendums on key issues. Nanny state alert!
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No doubt which way you are buttering your bread then!! Couple of things.
There was no mention of any policy direction in the weeks and months before the treaty was ratified, events overtook them and Cameron doesn’t want to reduce his electoral chances by still supporting a referendum.
There is every point in having a referendum if only to show our displeasure at how the EU is influencing UK domestic politics and to give a clear mandate to renegotiate membership terms.
As for climate change the question to all three should have been. Now the jury is out on climate change why do you all still insist on taxing us on it’?
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Jobs jobs jobs jobs.. apparently the Tories are anti-European, Clegg is anti-American and both are out of touch with reality.
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The only one out of touch with reality is Brown the Clown if he honestly thinks we are going to vote for more of his lies and spin and reckless squandering.
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Afghanistan time. Would we do it again?
Clegg says he’d send troops in if the same situation arose again in future.
Brown refers to ongoing global al-Qaeda problems, linking them to action in the UK. He says we have to take on al-Qaeda wherever it is. Says Afghanistan can work.
Cameron’s not really saying anything, not answering the question. Goes on about equipment, helicopters, aid, political “get out” strategy. Ends by saying he supports it.
Clegg confirms he’d scrap Eurofighter and Trident.
Brown goes on about dedicated troops and how great they are. Shame you didn’t equip them properly Gordon. Refers to al-Qaeda in Yemen and Somalia and that we must take them on there. Brilliant armed forces.
Dave completely agrees with Gordon and is blown away by the professionalism of the army. Freudian slip Dave? Apparently the political state in Afghanistan is not being implemented properly.
Clegg back on equipment. Gordon retaliates by saying he has had to change tactics and hence equipment hasn’t been a constant.
Cameron comes back on Trident, jibing Clegg for promising an alternative to Trident but not being able to tell us what it is.
Gordon tells Clegg to get real about the dangers that we face with rogue states with nukes.
Dave says “I agree with Gordon”, that you cant just rustle up a nuclear deterrent at the last minute as and when you need one.
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yawn……………….lol
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What have each personally done to adjust to climate change?
Brown says he’s installed a solar panel on his home in Scotland and uses trains a lot. Apparently a lot more to be done.
Dave claims to have properly insulated his house and comes out against the third runway at Heathrow, and in an “I agree with Nick” moment suggests high speed rail instead.
Clegg admits to not doing enough. He’s about to plug his new Per Plane Duty. And he has.
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Gordon commits to reducing dependence on oil. Talks about Britain being the leader in offshore wind power. Says nuclear is great and is the future.
Dave talks about “the green deal” whereby companies will kit your home out with green items and share the benefits of the savings. Gordon says they’re already doing it.
Clegg thinks nuclear is too expensive and it takes too long to build power plants, which is too late. His idea is a mass insulation programme for homes and buildings. How’s that going to help when we’ve got no power?
Gordon says they’re investing in electric cars. And that avoiding nuclear is very short sighted.
Dave makes the point I did in an article a while ago, that blackouts are coming.
“Nick, you’re right” says Gordon and jibes at Clegg’s anti-Americanism.
Dave says you don’t need to keep legislating for climate change, but you need action. Clegg agrees then says he thinks America is important but wont be a lapdog.
Brown tries to say he’s telling America what to do. Tories are, “Big Society at home, Little Britain abroad”.
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Here we go, religion and politics are a lethal cocktail and should be kept apart at all costs!!!!!!
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Pope state visit: will they disassociate with the pope on his policies on contraception, kiddie fiddling, etc.
Dave backs the Pope’s visit but says he doesn’t agree with the Pope on many issues. Says Catholic church has “very very serious work to do”. Respects importance of faith.
Clegg says he’s not a man of faith. Starts going on about his wife, says Catholics are torn apart over the kiddie fiddling. Says he approves Pope visit and hopes that Pope will recognise the child abuse.
Brown confirms people never forget crimes committed against them by Catholic vicars. Says there must be a confession about what’s happened. Welcomes Pope’s visit and wants him to come to Britain because Catholicism is a great part of Britain. Says we must break barriers of religion.
Dave would be against the Pope’s views on advances in science/embryology and on abortion but it doesn’t mean the Pope should be condemned. We should be open and tolerant of faith.
Clegg doesn’t agree with the Catholic church’s view on homosexuality.
Brown says Labour introduced civil partnerships. He backs embryology research and backs contraception no matter the religion. He regrets the fact that the Catholic church wont support it.
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We have nice weather this week; that’s put at risk by Conservative policies, bla bla bla, negative campaigning yet again from Brown, typical Liebour, yawn. Grow up Brown.
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Yawn, Brown with his childish class tactics again. Playing the class card with inheritance tax, grow up Gordon, Labour knows nothing about fairness, society is more unfair than ever under Liebour.
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How will they restore faith in the political system?
Clegg first. Instantly onto powers of recall and says Lib Dems thought of it first. Now he talks about party funding, blaming Tories and Labour for blocking reforms because of Lord Ashcroft and Unite. Wants to change first past the post.
Brown claims a vote can make a difference. Says he approves recall. Says petitions can be put to the commons. He wants a referendum on the future of the House of Commons and to end hereditary peers. Labour spin time. The recovery is put at risk by Conservative policies and jobs are put at risk by both.
Dave confirms people want to know they’re voting for a clean Parliament. Right. Strict limits on expenses with total transparency. Cost of politics needs to be cut. Open primaries so people can choose candidates. Does not support getting rid of First Past the Post.
Clegg bats the dodgy donations away and talks about something else. Encourages people to register to vote.
Brown was ashamed by MPs behaviour and no punishment is too great. Says any further breaches will result in expulsion from the House of Commons. Starts trying to guilt trip people into voting Labour by talking about jobs again.
Dave says politicians have been treating people as mugs by promising the Earth and failing to deliver. Big Society time. Better upbringings, better schools with discipline. People have to accept they have a responsibility to society.
Clegg calls Tories and Labour “old parties”. Says many MPs for them are in jobs for life because seats are safe. Hence they start taking the piss.
Public service is about serving the public, not about serving yourself. Says Gordon.
If you take responsibility and do the right thing you often get punished. People feel that people who go off the rails get everything given to them. According to Dave. And me.
Brown then goes on about inheritance tax for some reason and gets stopped by Clegg who agrees with Dave!
MPs should work full time in their constituents’ interest! Marsden are you listening to your leader?
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Marsden’s leader is in Zimbabwe.
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Good move by David Cameron shooting down Brown’s scaremongering and negative tactics.
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Is £59 state pension a just reward?
Brown says no. Pension linked to earnings in 2012. All women to get full state pension. Free TV license blah blah.
Dave says pensioners deserve dignity. From 2016 retirement age goes up by 1 year to fund an increase in pensions. Says its not right for people that paid their way to have to pay for everything in retirement whilst those that didnt save anything get it all for free.
Clegg agrees that £59 per week is not enough, and talks about fuel costs. Says some people get the bus on cold says because its cheaper than heating their home.
Brown again promises full state pension. Says all employees will get an occupational pension. Says care in the home will be provided. Attacks free prescriptions and eye tests because they’re not in Tory manifesto. Says Clegg is cutting Winter Fuel Allowance.
Dave says Brown is trying to scare pensioners. Says TV license, pension credit, fuel allowance, bus pass will all be kept. Says Labour leaflets saying otherwise are lies.
Clegg says 2.5million pensioners are in poverty. Appalling. Winter Fuel Allowance is being cut from 60 to 65 under Liberal Democrats.
Dave confirms to keep free eye tests and prescriptions for pensioners and challenges Brown to take back all the leaflets he has spread saying otherwise.
Brown says he knows nothing about it. Says Clegg is cutting Winter fuel payments again.
Clegg says lets not try to score political points over this.
Dave mentions his £8000 payment which will cover all future care for pensioners so they don’t have to sell their house.
Brown calls for a limit on the cost of putting people into a home, says there will be a 2 year limit on payments so if you’re in longer, you don’t pay any more.
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Time for political differences to be set aside and should a coalition be formed?
Alliances should be made, says Dave. Provided it’s about “doing the right thing”. He doesnt think a hung parliament would be good because it would not be decisive enough.
Clegg says it’s better to have a hung parliament. He would, though, wouldn’t he!
Brown goes on about tripartite committees that already exist but that we need a plan to protect public services and get the economy going. Let me guess, Labour are the only ones that can do it.
Dave says he’d make a hung parliament work. He’d try and get other politicians on board but the difference is that the Conservatives want to make savings this year rather than implement tax hikes next year. Says the jobs tax could kill recovery and jobs.
Clegg doesn’t take the bait. Goes back to hung parliaments and says MPs will talk to each other to provide a sound government that we deserve.
Gordon cosys up to Nick saying he invited Liberals into his advisories. Back to the financial crisis. He made the right decision to take over the banks. Tories take £6bn out of the economy, blah blah. Cameron is a risk to the economy and Clegg is a risk to our defence with his nuclear cuts.
Cameron reminds us of the 1100 business leaders that support his economy policy. He says the national security council should sit as a war cabinet and that other leaders should also attend the meetings.
If Brown and Cameron care so much about the economy, why wont they reform the banks, asks Clegg. Lets split them up to get the recovery going!
Dave demonstrates the problem with a hung parliament in that they all disagree on the debate. Says Liberal Democrats and Labour both want the Jobs Tax.
Brown says Cameron is “old conservative”.
Clegg says banking implosion should never be allowed to happen again.
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“I’m NOT interest in point scoring, I’m interested in doing the right thing”, pull the other one Brown, that all you’ve been doing all bloody night.
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How would they make immigration fairer?
Tighten borders, says Clegg. Says Tories and Labour abandoned exit controls and they’d bring them back. He would direct migrants to places where they are needed. Would rectify illegal immigrants by allowing them to stay and join the economy.
Brown thinks illegal immigrant amnesty is a bad policy because it encourages illegal immigration. Implement a points policy. No unskilled worker is allowed to come in.
We have benefitted from immigration according to Dave and we should be warm and welcoming to them. Immigration has been too high and it needs cutting. Says there should be transitional controls to stop immigrant flood from Europe.
Clegg says we just want a system that works. Says he wants to go after criminal gangs that are exploiting illegal immigrants. Apparently doing some community service “makes up for the fact they have come here illegally”.
Brown calls for ID cards and biometric visas. Says the points system is the key to getting into Britain. Says he is worried about Liberals policy again.
Cameron says Cleggs idea is bad and bizarre that he wants to funnel people into specific areas. It’d be like having internal border controls.
Clegg says at least its an attempt to deal with the problem rather than point scoring.
Brown says immigration is down due to Labour and it’d be helpful if Liberals supported ID cards.
Cameron calls for firm immigration control, wants a return to how it used to be when people were not talking about immigration. Says the Liberal Democrats would make it much worse.
Clegg says Dave’s ideas have no substance.
Gordon goes on about the points system again. Cameron comes back saying that as soon as Labour came in, immigration doubled.
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Brown summarises by saying don’t do anything that will put economic recovery at risk. Says Tories and Liberals are dangerous.
Cameron says Brown is trying to scaremonger. Says we need a clean break from the last 13 years. Tories are fresh and new apparently. Family comes first, people need to do the right thing. Clean break again. Build the Big Society!
Clegg says he’s tried to show that if we do things differently we can lead the world. Lets be proud of fairness and standing up for what we believe in. We don’t need mistakes of the past, don’t let yourself be told it can’t be different.
The end.
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Top Telly, Cameron won it just, followed by another good performance by Clegg and Gordon was terrible. Hard to believe but he was actually worse this week.
I think it’s odds on now that Labour will come third in this election vote wise.
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Spot on ZF, I would Cameron was the winner tonight, Clegg performed well and I thought just like last week Brown was terrible; juvenile and bitter constantly stooping to negative campaigning and scaremongering in typical Labour style. But it made me laugh watching David Milliband defending his ‘excellent’ performance on Sky News after and then Alistair Campbell was just as bad. The friendly Sky News reporter opened Mr Campbell, our Yougov poll indiciates David Cameron won and he very aggresively shouted over her ‘I don’t care what your polls say, Gordon was the clear winner’ LABOUR OUT 2010!!!
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Bit of a mixed bag of poll results. I was checking the Guardian’s response tracker and they had Labour around the same level, the Tories massively lower and Liberals massively higher. But then that’s the Guardian.
The Sun/ComRes seem to agree with you that Cameron won it and put Brown and Clegg as about the same. Which I suppose in many ways they are.
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Sorry, YouGov agrees with you, ComRes says Clegg won.
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One thing I can say for definite is that Brown was the loser, he was absolutely terrible and very childish I thought stooping to class war tactics and scaremongering. I wouldn’t listen to The Guardian that’s bound to be biased. Yougov and ComRes etc are independent pollsters. I completed a survey for ICM just after the debate.
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This election will produce a hung parliament and one that the population truly deserve for allowing the indulgences of an unelected PM.
As for deserving actually means watch this space!!!!
Do any of you have any realistic idea of what will occur when the IMF have to be called in?
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I’ll be calling for them to launch a Trident at Blackpool
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On Blackpool You mean?
Would anyone notice any difference?
For there to be any realistic effect of the deficit Public Spending needs to the trimmed by £200 Billion over the next 13 – 18 Months.
The IMF would insist on such a condition before agreeing to the international tide over loans.
Think about a whole 1 third of public servants across everything put on the dole and the damage that would do to the overall economy….
Bad stuff is coming anyway whether the IMF insist on it (which could be the get out all 3 big parties are looking for) or not but a party with a working majority could manage the carnage!!
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The only one coming clean on the public sector cuts are the Tories. No, they don’t go far enough, but then these are only the cuts they have announced. How many cuts have Labour announced?
None at all. Both the Lib Dems and Labour have promised “reform” on public sector including pensions. But what does that mean? It’s airy fairy crap that avoids using words like JOB CUTS.
What I am trying to get at is to agree with you that ALL parties MUST make big cuts. But none of them want to use this in their campaign because it means nobody will vote for them!
I am fairly confident that the Conservatives will be able to reform the economy better than Labour or the Liberal Democrats.
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Personally I would aim it at Preston, noone would notice its gone as nobody even knows its there.
But anyhow I agree we need to curb public spending drastically and Brown will not accept this. He cons gullible people into believing we can ‘recover’ the economy by continuing Labour’s reckless spending. Socialism DOESN’T work (quite literally). When I go to the bank and on the rare occasion my finances are running low (I am careful with my money) I don’t keep on spending saying to my girlfriend that continued spending is going to help the recovery of my finances, it is insane. Brown and Labour are ecnomically illiterate. But there is so much money just wasted by Labour that could easily be cut back. Like scrapping pointless quangos, stop paying civil servants more than the PM, get scroungers who are fit and capable back into work and countless more areas. The only economics Labour knows is how to waste OUR money.
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Haha, that gave me a giggle. I think you should try saying that to your girlfriend. Plan to take her out somewhere, then say to her sorry love, my reckless spending has left me with unprecedented levels of debt, so we can’t go out.
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Its worth a try, I did make that comment jokingly but the underlying point is serious, that is how socialists work they deludedly think we have a bottomless pit of money that we can dip into when the piggy bank is empty, then Brown the Clown has the gall to claim we are in recovery. It makes me cringe hearing him use that word, Labour has wrecked the economy like they do everytime and leaves someone else to clean up the mess and take the blame.
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Lets start with the Pollitts, vermin that they are!
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Blackpool would be sunk as it relies on the public sector………….
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I agree that is a big problem, we need more private sector commerce in Blackpool. But then the waste of space NWDA giving Liverpool grants to take private business off us doesn’t help does it?
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The council are equally to blame for Blackpool’s demise, by trying to force people out of the town centre.
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This is the 1980s all over again, probably worse.Getting rid of public sector workers in manchester etc is one thing but Blackpool would be totally fucked; a ghost town.where would all these people work after being given the boot? Preston? Manchester,? ther area would fall into a truly massive slump, regeneration killed off, people leaving to find work or mass numbers on the dole, doing nothing.what a nightmare.
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The level of work as such that is available in Blackpool for the Private Sector is in the main very poor quality.
By that I mean at minimum wage levels.
It would take a generation to turn round that situation and to bring meaningful employment to the town.
Didn’t some cars used to be made here? The whole Country needs to get back to a manufacturing base both to assist in dragging us out of debt and providing good meaningful employment.
It is the private sector manufacturing industries that put the Great in Great Britain successive Governments of the last 50 years or so have allowed our manufacturing base to fall away to the root of square all.
It has got us out of jail before and it will again it simply needs the will of the Government to make it happen.
Or a good old fashioned war!!
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I agree geezer466 there is plenty of highly qualified private sector workers living on the Fylde Coast but not the jobs for them. I long hoped Talbot Gateway would aim to address this problem but most of that seems to be focused on the public sector.
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Thats why, whoever gets in, and decides to cut public sector jobs will have to think about Blackpool, cos its so dependant. that bigs cuts would kill off the town.
Without public sector, the town is screwed.
I agree about manufacturing, under labour it has shrunk more than any other government.
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What I would like to see more of in Blackpool is the quartenary and quinary sectors which are the future. Quarternary is modern industry like research and development, microtechnology and pharmaceuticals and quinary is commerce, insurance etc. Both of these sectors require highly skilled well educated workforces and would pay decent wages, decent jobs that are much needed in Blackpool.
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Paying people to do jobs that shouldn’t exist isn’t the answer either.
Greece is fucked because it didn’t control its public sector, and we’re heading down the same rocky road.
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Ok so we bin the public sector in Blackpool, then what????
A massive slump/depression for Blackpool, lasting for decades?
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Who says it has to be an all-or-nothing approach? Remember, it’s unnecessary jobs that should be cut, not necessary ones.
The public sector needs shrinking one way or another. I’d rather see Blackpool’s public sector killed off than Britain going bankrupt. Neither are good, but one is much worse.
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Thats true about Blackpool versus UK but which public sector jobs would you like to see go, exactly?
For me, all diversity and equality officers etc are a waste of time and money: Scrap em across the entire nation.
Speaking of scrapping jobs, what about one job, STEVE WEAVER.I met a girl at a BBQ yesterday who works for Blackpool council, boy does she hate Steve Weaver,she confirmed everything about him, hes lazy and useless.
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Couldn’t tell you that, as I don’t work for the public sector. What I do know is Labour have created over a million new public sector jobs, and if these jobs were not needed in 1997, why are they needed now?
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There are many non-jobs which I feel should be cut or erased altogether. In Kent County Council there is a whole team of directors/executives who all earn more than the PM. They have an ASSISTANT Director of Regeneration on £240k, god only knows what the chief exec is on! This sort of waste has to go.
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That girl has got it spot on about Weaver, Harold, but sack Alan Cavill as well, he is a worthless waste of space. These guys are in charge of Blackpool yet they are total pessimists, they’re like BlackpoolRockSeller and that obnoxious ItzNotWotItWoz, they have no belief in Blackpool whatsoever yet we pay them huge salaries.
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The area where I work now is much different than the previous one, I could see scrapping jobs in my old area.Where I work, we do work for other departments and its expendong cos shared services SAVES money.This girl also mentioned helen France as useless,240k in kent thats beyond belief.So its not about getting rid of jobs, its saving money,I agree a lot of these diectors could and should go,its vague as to what they do and that straight away raises concerns.
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Out of interest am I the only one that thought Alistair Campbell looked pissed as a fart?
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I thought that too and I thought he was very abrupt and rude and aggressive to boot.
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None of them have addressed the problems of mid/large families coming here from the EU with no skills often with no or very poor English to go straight onto the dole/benefits and then be allocated free housing.
That is the real immigration issue as we are tied by European treaty and are effectively importing unemployment. They probably do have reasonable controls in place now to deal with the bulk of the illegals getting over the border the problem is the legals which are stretching public services!!”
They deliberately avoid the question and obfuscate in their replies.
Standard ploy – refocus the question if you know people won’t like your answer. If you’ve got a better answer for the 20% (i.e. the non-EUs) then refocus on them and not the remaining 80%. Watch and learn. They’re not deaf or stupid. Listen and they’re actually screaming at you and admitting they either have no answer or have one you’ll not like.
What the political classes don’t get is we’ve all had to become politicians at work, home, etc. And suddenly we all notice that they aren’t even very good at being politicians!
Europe is the problem and none of the feckers will admit it!!
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True enough. The European thing is a big issue but whilst we’re in Europe there is nothing we can do about it.
Cameron did touch on it by saying that we need “transitional controls”, whatever they are. Presumably a control over flow rate.
They could well argue back that European immigrants are filling jobs that there are insufficient British people able or willing to do. I don’t just mean plastering: the cleaners at Blackpool Vic are all Polish. Is this because of a lack of British cleaners, because British cleaners are too expensive or because Brits prefer to sit on benefits rather than do a basic wage job? Which brings us on to the benefits problem, of course..
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hence the odious idle Politts;reduce benefits,reduce unemployment, reduce immigration.
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reduce benefits, reduce immigration.
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Any of you just see Boulton talk about the new Tory poster? It’s got Brown as Vicky Pollard with the slogan;
“Did I lie about free eye tests and prescriptions?”
“Yeah but no but yeah but no but….”
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lol watch this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8639097.stm
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Just a random bif of news for you all here, read the bottom line; http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/blackpoolnews/Train-times-improved.6250615.jp#5161630
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Yes I saw that last night…..
Great news if True could we be about to see Virgin pendelino’s parked up at Blackpool North with a direct run to Euston?
I would certainly use the service the non stop Preston into town is a smidgen under two hours on the non stop, so potentially allowing for the one stop at Preston it could dramatically cut the journey time into London 2 Hours 20 minutes Blackpool to hailing a cab on the Euston Road?
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What they don’t tell you is that 93% is actually shite compared with other countries and the method of working it out means that trains can be 10 minutes late and still be counted as on time.
I did this mini rant on Blackpool Aloud a few weeks ago;
“The Japanese are a more aspirational people than us Brits, that’s why they always end up with better stuff. They don’t settle for acceptable, they want the best, the next generation stuff (unless it’s a Toyota brake pedal).
And when they have the best stuff, they like to use it because its convenient and runs on time. That’s one reason why they have over five times the passenger-kilometres that we do.
We’re so downtrodden we just accept anything, even if it’s crap. We accept it when trains are late, we accept handing over the shirt off our back for a ticket. In other cultures, it would not be acceptable for trains to be consistently late.
According to Network Rail, 93.5% of trains are punctual. This means that on average, given the number of rail journeys per day, a commuter would suffer one late train per week. Note that in determining punctuality, a train can be up to 10 minutes late and still count as being on time, which is a bit of a disgrace.
I read something a bit ago that said in Germany, 98% of trains were on time,and by on time that meant within seconds of their scheduled arrival time. Why can’t we have a service that runs this efficiently?”
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And on the renewal of the London link, Paul Maynard said he’d spoken to the chief executive of Virgin Rail and asked whether, if the line to Preston were electrified, Blackpool would see the return of the London link.
Can you guess what the answer was?
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