LEFT-WING SOOTHSAYER Simon Blackburn yesterday upped the ante in the latest row over council jobs as he rattled the sabre of rhetoric in the direction of Peter Callow, spewing out his socialist sermon through a megaphone outside the town hall.
Due to a £32m cut in Blackpool’s budget, up to 1000 jobs are at risk with every member of staff at the council having recently received their notice of consultation. Well, no doubt apart from the Chief Executive.
Brunswick ward councillor Blackburn gave his loyal Labour footsoldiers food for thought, as he said;
“The people of Blackpool just don’t understand how Coun Callow and his Tory colleagues can spend money like water when propping up the private sector and then turn around and say between £30m and £40m of public sector services have to go.”
Cllr Blackburn is trying to draw a line here between the private sector and public sector; making a suggestion that the Conservatives are supporting the private sector at the public sector’s expense. Unfortunately for Simon, it’s not true.
You see, the Gasjet informs us that the projects in Cllr Blackburn’s mind are the £2.5m injection into the council-owned Sandcastle, the £5m loan to the Pleasure Beach and the (approximately) £40m acquisition of the Tower and Winter Gardens. The only project here that sees Callow propping up the private sector is the £5m loan to the Pleasure Beach.
Simon conveniently ignores the St. John’s Square project (£4m), the Birley Street project (£5m), the £3.5m purchase and refit of Harveys for Blackpool Coastal Housing, the Tower Festival Headland (£15m), the wedding chapel and new Registry Office, the Promenade renewal and the replacement tram lines (£100m). These are all public realm improvements that have consumed far more money than the other projects that Simon Blackburn has listed, and all of this spending has, in part, been fuelled by Labour-appointed quangocrats like Steven Broomhead at the doomed North West Development Agency.
So, what does this work out at? Apart from the Pleasure Beach loan, everything else has, more or less, been funded by a Labour government or Labour quango. This is one of the Labour bargaining tools until they realise that because of this spending, and similar spending around the UK, the government now has no money available to keep public sector workers in jobs.
All the cycling grants and projects in Blackpool were handed over by, oh yes, another Labour-founded quango called Cycling England. This quango is apparently set to be axed by the government and in its dying throes has tossed a few more taxpayer dollars into the Blackpool Council Spending Machine.
Looking at the council’s predicted spending until 2013 you can see that there’s £50m committed to building council offices at the Talbot Gateway. Remember that, Simon? Another Labour-founded money-pit that you won’t say whether you support or not.
Approximately £170m has been spent on public realm improvements and acquisitions, with much more committed in future years (with just a £5m loan to show for the support of the private sector. So it’s fairly audacious for Cllr Blackburn to tell us that the council has supported the private sector at the expense of the public.
If you ask any business owner in Blackpool, the Callow council has supported the public sector at the expense of everyone else.
(Well, unless you’re in the Blackpool Improvement District club (another quango started by Labour)).
Welcome to the real world public servents, private businesses are reducing workforce so the public sector should be doing the same. No more bloated staff levels, no more non jobs.
Simon Blackburn does seem to have a selective memory, it was under the labour council and labour government that the public sector grew to levels that are unsustainable in this economic climate.
Yes – but isn’t it lazy deceitful politic-ing that can say yes we would have had to cut – but this not much and not this thing to everything that comes up. Along of course with how it wasn’t our fault – it was worldwide events and we couldn’t possibly have protected ourselves a bit against those like other European countries did.
If Simon wants to save jobs he should be calling for the directors salaries to be halved (at least)
Blackpools directors are parasite scum,paid obscene money for having no obvious talent, besides causing even more problems.
Congratulations Phil
Perfectly described and so much more informative that the GASJET – No Bull – straight forward facts.
Times are hard in the private sector but those willing to go the extra mile will benefit long term.
To those sitting in there Ivory Towers remember NT’s best ever quote “He got on his bike and looked for work”
God help Blackpool if him and his lot ever get back in power, Blackpool will suffer. The thought of Blackburn as Council Leader makes my blood run cold, it will be like having Roy Fisher back.
Tb with Peter ‘fallow’ Callow ‘running’ the council,hes got a good chance;now if Peter Callow & co were to go and be replaced by a rising star, about to storm onto the political scene, ie Paul Galley, then that would be a different story…………………..
Paul Galley is the saviour we have all longed for,young,dynamic,transport focused, hungry and very capable,everything that Callow and co arent.
I can easily see Paul Galley taking Blackpool forward,cos he knows how to run a business,teamed with the experience of Robert Wynne then that would be a condem dream ticket……
Harold is either Tony Williams or he has just lost all his big store of credibility.
to be fair, compared to the vast majority of our councillors the description fits Paul very well. However, because he is standing for the Conservatives he will be told how to vote by either Peter Callow or whoever replaces him. The same is true of the Labour Councillors as Gary Coleman discovered when he voted against the Labour whip.
Yes – but if he’s told to vote for something he doesn’t believe in he can still refuse to and the worst that will happen is that he’ll be booted out of the party. Once one party block votes I suppose it’s likely for most parties to join in to make sure they have some influence. Do you know of any party other than the Lib Dems that don’t whip local councillors?
I can only speak as I find, not all Lib Dem groups whip their councillors but some of them do. I can understand why they they do it, I just don’t agree with it and neither do the rest of the Lib Dems in Blackpool.
lol never knew I had any credibility, lol, its news to me,lol.
I am the last person to have any political credibility with all my expletives and rantings,lol.
Perhaps some of the casualties should retrain and go for career path change. If they want stay in Public Sector Employment
Live Job Vacancies:
http://www.yourcounciljobs.co.uk/Jobs.aspx?sMinimumSalary=0&sMaximumSalary=0&sJobTypeLook=-1&sSimple=&SAuthority_id=21&PageSize=50&page=0
The executive is part of the problem and until such time as they come to realise it and address the fact we will all be no further forward.
Lets examine the justification when they awarded themselves telephone number salary figures.
The size of the budgets they manage.
The fact more or less the same counterparts as them at the top of Blue Chip PLC’s are paid a large sum.
Well the budgets they manage are being reduced and directors of PLC’s are subject to re-election by shareholders at annual general meetings, whereas the likes of Weaver are not.
As for the means and delivery of Blackburns protest well of course he is allowed to make it in anyway way he sees fit. If he wishes to make an unfair comparison then so what? 70% of those he is preaching too won’t understand the significance anyway, in any event the £5 million loan to BPB has never been fully explained and they did try and slap a D Notice on it when it was first discussed.
Anyway Phil is it not time you got more in keeping with the sort of stories the people of Blackpool really want?
The trousers that catch light if you stand to close to the fire!!
The mystery of the crushed car!
Kitchen fitter being out of work after his van was nicked off someone’s drive (keys left in the ignition no doubt).
The lorry fire on the M55
I could go on but you get the gist.
Real quality journalism this week.
The executive is part of the problem and until such time as they come to realise it and address the fact we will all be no further forward.
as always spot on Geezer,Weaver is the ENEMY.
The Gasjet site is making me reach for the vomit bowl reading some of the misguided left-wing nonsense on this topic. Today it has been dominated by a left-wing mob who are spouting all sorts of nonsense about Thatcherism. Claiming it is an ideology of ‘greed’ ‘privatisation’ and all sorts of other stereotypical rubbish. These self-righteous lefties really irritate me when they act as though ‘Old Labour’ is the ‘perfect’ Government. I hope we never see another Labour Government (new or old).
Behind Closed Doors
Blackpool Borough Council need to spring into this century.
Why not publish a web cast of all council and commitee meetings.
If Fylde Borough Council can do it – see : http://www2.fylde.gov.uk/media/2010/cabinet101110/Webcast%20Template.html
It would be great for the community to see what is discussed approved – blocked etc.
This would open up true democratic access to the voters to see what they are supporting and what the councillors voted in to that position represent.
http://www2.fylde.gov.uk/media/2010/Council221110/webcast%20template.html
Ooh dear – anyone watched one of those? They’re like they had a quick dress rehearsal beforehand and are all done for the public audience about issues agreed behind closed doors long ago. Broadcasting the meetings just isn’t enough. And you’ll find if there’s a contensious issue the ward councillors affected will be otherwise engaged come the meeting or let to vote against but be powerless.
If Simon Blackburn is as concerned about job losses, as he claims he is,why doesnt he use this opportunity to demand the scrapping of the ENTIRE executive.
All of these positions are totally redundannt and could be done by a committe of other officers and private sector representatives.
Weaver and his toady SS acolytes MUST go, they are one of the main reasons why Blackpool fails to realise its potential,they are nothing but a straglehold on progress.
The Gazette wont ask the question because Steve Weaver uses it to wipe his wart infested arse with.
Callow wont do the right thing cos hes a coward as well as inept.
So who is really running this town?
The Unions should be demanding the removal of, or wage slashing at the very least of, this panoply of of penile parasites.
Nobody I know of wants the executive,overpaid and an impediment to progress.
Lets start a campaign here to SCRAP them,Weaver,Cavill, France and whoever else.
EXCRETE the EXECUTIVE.
Lets save jobs, make Blackpool a better place and get rid of jobsworth jobbies!
What do say Phil? starta campaign on this site,invite people to sign a petition?
Heres my signature: HAROLD ERNEST GOKDOGAN.
Who is running the Council???? I thought you were in the Executive Tony?
not me,anyway I hope the EDL twat the UVF, sorry UAF in Preston today!
It annoys me how the EDL are always referred to as an ‘extremist far right group’ but then UAF are never referred to as an ‘extremist far-left group’. I personally support neither organisation but I feel UAF are promoting fascism by trying to surpress the EDL’s right to protest. Its like it annoys me when these far-left students are referred as ‘anarchists’. They are not anarchists, they are lefties funny how the BBC omits that fact.
With views like yours I am sure you will fit in just fine on the Conservative seats next May with Harold.
What’s that supposed to mean? I have no support for either of those groups I am simply pointing out how both groups are extremists, it is two-way thing.
There is nothing wrong with being Conservative and you are trying to insinuate it is something to be ashamed of.
Labour is the enomy not the Conservatives.
her here TB,and conservatism is about wanting to preserve the freedoms that are threatened by the far left PC briagde aka ZANULABOUR.
UAF are nothing but communist/marxist paedophiles………..
TB the UAF can’t be called a far left group because factually it is not (facts don’t you hate them). The UAF have left wing supporters (more then right wing supporters) they have central support and I could list a lot of conservative MPs who support the UAF. If it annoys you that the EDL are called far right then that’s your problem.
You are misinterpreting my comment, I said I support neither group, I don’t support any left-wing group because I despise left-wing politics.
I haven’t misinterpreting your comments you asked why the UAF aren’t called left wing on the BBC the answer is there not just left wing. Just because they oppose a far right party doesn’t make them far left you don’t have to be a lefty to think the EDL are wrong.
I don’t support any left-wing group because I despise left-wing politics.
I am a socialist therefore left wing but I feel education should be free this is a corner stone to socialist policies. Couldn’t you support this?
I am a socialist and feel healthcare should be for all no matter how rich or poor. Couldn’t you support this?
I am a socialist and feel that the good of the many does out weight the individual wants therefore I do support the no smoking band. Couldn’t you support this?
I am a socialist and feel that everyone should be paid a living wage and should be treated with respect a dignity. Couldn’t you support this?
looks like you got your wish Harold. Several EDL demonstrators hurled beer bottles at a group of UAF demonstrators and also hit an asian man. My daughter was working in a shop (Greggs) in Market street and narrowly avoided being hit by a missile. All she was doing was trying to earn a few quid as she works her way through Uni. The EDL said they protesting about the building of yet more mosques in Preston – yet the vast majority of the EDL demonstrators were not from Preston so what concern is it of theirs anyway? Not that it concern anyone who lives in Preston either. The muslims aren’t going to make people go into the mosques. The mosques are there to satisfy a demand. The UAF are not an “extreme far-left group” The majority of those UAF demonstrators in Preston were Lib Dems and Labour members, none of the ones I know (except one former Blackpool Labour Councillor) would be considered far left or extreme. They exist purely to counter the rascist BNP and EDL.
Jon what is wrong with oppossing a facist brutal ideology like Islam?
The more islamic this country becomes, the less free we will be;its bad enough having the odious PC brigade.
I see Eric Pickles is doing the right thing by saying that Christmas is Christmas and the PC version is to be sent to the dustbin of history,thank god for the conservatives on this issue.We need more policies like this from Eric,now this is what proper conservatism ias about,wanting to preserve freedoms and traditions,give me more of this than the vile PC brigade who have done more to recruit BNP membership and undermine race relations than any other group.
I am not saying the EDL are perfect but anyone who opposes ISLAM gets my nod of appreciation and I am sick of anyone who opposes ISLAM being labelled “Far right”.ISLAM is FAR RIGHT.
You make a number of fair points but I am unashaedely ANTI MUSLIM.
I would stop all mosque building and all muslim immigration if I had my way.
It is an ideology founded by a peadophile and terrorist and is backward,intolerant.Its everything that western society isnt,its sexist,homophobic and in fact anti non mulsim.I had a copy of the quran (before a mate used it on his bonfire) and believe me this book of hatred,is akin to mein kamp,its an abomination.
God help us if sharia law gets a foothold here,the more muslims we allow into this country,the more likely that will happen.Muslim countries have poor records on human rights,freedom and EQUALITY.The PC brigade with their far left bully boy thug-scum UAF just dont get it, that they are defending an ideology that is a religious form of FASCISM.
What a grotesque irony.
I totally agree with you Harold. It’s ok saying what a great thing having large muslim “communities” in Lancashire mill towns is when you haven’t lived through what that actually means.
I am not “anti-muslim”. What I am against is “multi-culturalism” whereby alien ideas to our own are allowed to become a leading majority viewpoint. Look at all the major trouble spots in the world and you will find few where the root cause isn’t the muslim population having out-bred the indiginous population and then changed that place. It’s not the nice educated muslims you meet that are the problem – it’s the large number of ill-educated in-breds now living in large numbers in a small number of our towns that are. Look at the number of educationally sub-normal children there are whose parents are cousins in an arranged marriage and then had at least 8 children, in following school years so close in age they do look the same. And when you point out a specific problem all you get is called racist.
There were large numbers (not a majority but large numbers) involved in drug-trafficking. Large numbers involved in immigration frauds. Large numbers having relatives come here and pretend to be them to get free cancer treatment. Large numbers who had a bride brought over and deliberately bred themselves into large benefit payments – and don’t think those wives and children saw the benefit of that money because they didn’t, even one who had leukaemia came to school in the morning having only been allowed one chapatti if anything for nutrition despite her father’s wallet bulging with money. There have been Asian rapist gangs for the last 20 years – because they see all westernised women as tarts who deserve what they get. When postal voting was liberalised they got so many forms on behalf of their wives that didn’t even speak English and know what was going on that they were using local shops as distribution points to get each other to put the cross in the right box because the adminstration of the vote fixing got so large. At the polling booths staff had to stop some husbands pointing out where to put their crosses. There has been widespread taking of driving tests for others so that many licensed drivers didn’t do their own tests. And that’s just what I’ve seen in my 32 years of living in an area where the Pakistanis moved in. And these isolated self-appointed community leaders laugh at your liberal views and abuse our systems. The mosques are the central point for every decision as to how towns are run. Selling your house in a mill town? You’ll find the leaders decide what price and who will offer and it’s posted up in the mosques when it’s decided. Pakistan is a very corrupt, racist and sexist place – what makes you think they all change the minute they get here? We all knew who the drug importers were, we all know the houses where the deals are done, we even know some of those who’ve been sent for terrorism training – but all you get is shouted down for being racist if you dare to suggest anything by the authorities too scared of being branded themselves to do anything about crimes committed by Asians.
So please don’t tell me about what muslims are or aren’t. The educated ones of course integrate and aren’t the people I’m talking about at all. But you need to really understand the communities in the mill towns and what is happening before you start thinking that all those BNP councillors and votes are coming from racists or even those concerned about immigration alone. I don’t condone the attacking of people of any race. I’d like to see our police actually apply the law to law-breakers instead. But whilst people like you suggest that all muslims are good and all EDL supporters are bad YOU are the one adding fuel to the fire because you haven’t any idea what it’s all about. And I’d point out the only “race riots” the town I came from has ever had was between Indians and Pakistanis. And the worst racist abuse I’ve ever seen in a school was a black lad by Pakistanis. They were treated as even worse as Bangladeshis in the medieval quasi-caste structure the children are indoctrinated with.
“But whilst people like you suggest that all muslims are good and all EDL supporters are bad YOU are the one adding fuel to the fire because you haven’t any idea what it’s all about.”
What absolute bunkum! I have never suggested that all muslims are good and all EDL supporters are bad. I do believe what I see with my own eyes and in my informed opinion, most EDL activists are racist bigots, as are most BNP activists. I would accept that a lot of their supporters are just ordinary people who are concerned about unemployment, immigration and integration. I was brought up in Oldham, in Werneth a (now) mainly asian area and Fitton Hill, a mainly white council estate. I am perfectly aware of the all of the problems that you mention but the fact of the matter is crimes are committed by an individual not a race or a religion. I would also accept that PC culture encouraged by NuLabour has, to a large degree hampered efforts by the police and other agencies to properly investigate many of the crimes you mentioned.
Some of the arguments that you and other EDL/BNP defenders are making are similar to those made by the National Socialists against the Jews in the 1930′s.
I have a sister in law who is a muslim, she has told me a lot about her religion and to be honest, it doesn’t really appeal to me. But then, Catholicism ain’t exactly a shining beacon either. My view is that if you want to believe in a god then fine – just as long as you obey the law and don’t interfere with my right not to believe in God.
But what is very different is the organised muslim “communities”. And the mosques are the centre of a lot of what is wrong (just like other organisations seeking only to look after their own that are nothing to do with Islam). You also have to look at the encouraged mass breeding programme – because lots of muslims means more muslim power. And you can’t really blame them – they are using the system our politicians have set up to their advantage and few groups in the same situation wouldn’t do the same – but it doesn’t make it right. All the tensions are really down to the actions (and inactions) of politicians. And when did you leave Werneth? Because the Blackburn I was used to as a kid had a few of these problems but it was only a little. 8 years ago when I finally left it was a completely different story and balance.
And Jon, what were you doing not persuading your daughter not to go into work when there was a rally like that on? You know how they attract the very worst of people on both sides no matter how reasoned some of the protesters are.
Its funny how people who love “diversity” DONT live in such communities.Its only a matter of time when Blackpool will fall like a domino to the muslim masses who want to wreck this country,all aided and abetted by weak,spineless pc politicians.
I know of no person who has escaped Blackburn and Burnley and Bradford who hast said they are so happy to get away from muslims.One day this country will be in a state of civil way,we all saw it coming!
I haven not lived in Werneth for a very long time. However, I have very close family who still live there including my Aunt who has lived there in the same house for 85 years. When she was born there no asians living in the area, now she is one of the very few white people. She is almost blind and unable to walk very far and the local community look after her very well. Her neighbours knock on her door every day to check on her and they fetch her shopping etc… I find that if you treat people with respect, you usually get respect back in return.
BTW, My daughter chose to go into work – if the shop had closed, like many around her did,, then she would have joined the UAF demonstration.
“I find that if you treat people with respect, you usually get respect back in return”.tahts what labour did towards the muslims,if not deference, now look at what we have!
when we are sat in the smouldering ruins of this country we can then all join hands to celebrate diversity.The days of the pc brigade,mnu labour,multi cult weirdos,uaf aka uvf are coming to an end.This is what happens when you undermine social cohesion with multicultralism, you get ETHNO-NATIONALISM.Labours legacy is the BNP and the EDL,every labour mp should be hung for what they have done to this country,they are the ultimate enemy.
A religion which hates womens equality,free speech,usury,homosexuality and non muslims (kufirs);founded by a paedophile prophet who slaughtered jews and christians who refused to convert, and whsoe adherents are practice the perverse marrying of cousins has no place with OUR society.The 3 mainstream parties aided and abetted by the thug/bully boy UVF, sorry UAF have no idea as to the magnitude of this problem
Listening to that jumped up liberal ponce, Lord Pantsdown on QT made me realise why I can never vote nationally for that party.The glorified wanker was extollin the virtues of a multi cultural society ( a contradiction in terms!), and failed to produce any objective evidence why we are better for multicultralism.We are not,we have more hate than ever, more division and it was PC zanu-labour who wanted to multicultralise Britain (Without OUR consent or approval!)
The germans have realsied the multi culti era is over, when will we?
Jon, the jews in the 30s werent bombing german citizens nor spreading hate and buliding more synagogues and schools from which to preach their hate of german society.
That argument is a non starter.
ISLAM OUT OF BRITAIN
It is an ideology founded by a peadophile and terrorist and is backward,intolerant.Its everything that western society isnt,its sexist,homophobic and in fact anti non mulsim.I had a copy of the quran (before a mate used it on his bonfire) and believe me this book of hatred,is akin to mein kamp,its an abomination.
ISLAM OUT OF BRITAIN
I don’t recognise your description of the Qur’an Harold, I’ve read it many times and if you take into consideration and in the context that it was revealed in 7th century Arabia, then it is quite liberal for it’s time.
If you want a thrilling read full of genocide, incest, murder, betrayal, rape et al then read the Old Testament. Ah yes that’s conveniently forgotten when Muslim-bashing is on the agenda isn’t it.
As for Islam out of Britian:
1. Where would I go? I’m a Sufi-Dervish Muslim through choice and believe me I have every right to be in this country. Born here of Scottish Highland ancenstry (i.e. aboriginal Pictish) and I’ve served this country in her armed forces.
2. Gokdogan is a Turkish surname based on the place name Gokdogan, an Ottoman settlement of the same name. Most people in the world today with this surname are Muslim. Got your bags packed Harold?
TT you are right to compare what was correct in the 7th century to what is correct in the 21st century is stupid.
Harold which version of the Qur’an do you have because modern scholars are arguing about different interpretation of the book.
I had a version but its gone up in smoke!
it was a “burnt offering” lol
Muhammad was a paedophile and terrorist.
lol glad you appreciate the ironical use of my surname…………
Muhammad was a paedophile and terrorist!
Harold said: Muhammad was a paedophile and terrorist!
Muhammed the paedophile?
Is this a reference to Muhammed’s betrothal to 9 year-old Aisha?
Let’s take a closer look at this then.
Aisha was the daughter of one of Muhammed’s allies Abu Bakr, an important man in his own right in Mecca. It was Abu Bakr’s idea that Muhammed married his daughter and proposed a betrothal when she was nine. However, Aisha did not live with Muhammed until she was of an age that the marriage could be consumated.
This was on the surface a purely political marriage in that Abu Bakr wished his family to be connected to the prophet for the prestige it brought (and in the end it made him the first Caliph and Muhammed’s political heir). As it happened Muhammed and Aisha were very fond of each other and he could be accused of showing favouritism to her above his other wives (he had quite a few, mostly political/diplomatic in nature including a christian woman known as Mary The Copt). Aisha was the wife who held him in her arms as he died.
Let’s put this into context with Henry VIII’s daughter Mary who was betrothed to her first cousin, Charles, The Holy Roman Emperor, at age 7 (he was 22) having previously been promised to the Dauphin of France at age 2. A few years later after the marriage to Charles was cancelled she was part of a marriage treaty that should have had her marrying King Francis of France (father of her first fiance the Dauphin) or one of his other relatives. This happened in 16th century England and was the norm throughout Europe and had been happening for centuries in tradition. In the end her father got the alliance with France he wanted and she didn’t have to go through with that marriage.
Muhammed’s betrothal to Aisha happened in 7th century Arabia and for the same reasons as stated – politics. Another point must be made about Muhammed and his wives. Muhammed’s first wife was called Khadija and Muhammed never had any other wife whilst she lived and they were married for 24 years until her death. He had 6 children with Khadija 4 daughters who survived to adulthood and 2 sons who died in infancy. He never had any other children with any of his other wives. This begs the question of Muhammed’s actual relationship with all of these other wives. Perhaps it was mostly platonic and possibly marriages of political convenience. We shall never know what happened between Muhammed and his wives in private so we can only speculate.
Muhammed was certainly not a paedophile – he did not sexually pray upon children.
Muhammed is a terrorist?
To the Quraish tribe (Muhammed’s own tribe), chief among the Meccan pagans (the dominant economic and military power in the Arabian peninsular) Muhammed was indeed a terrorist in that he commenced a guerrilla war against them from the settlement of Yathrib (today’s Medina). It was a guerrilla war that ended in victory for the initially outnumbered and lesser armed Muslims. I personally don’t blame him as the Meccan pagans had tried to assassinate him on several occasions in Mecca before the Muslims found refuge at Yathrib. At Yathrib the pagans attempted to militarily crush the Muslims on more than one occasion. Terrorist or freedom fighter? Depends on your point of view. However, as Islam spread throughout Arabia, Muhammed decreed that Christian and Jewish places of worship should be left alone as houses of God used by “Ahl Al-Kitabi” – “The People of The Book”. Saint Catherine’s Monastery on Mount Sinai is a perfect example of this practice and it’s library has a document that is supposed to have been authorised by Muhammed himself bestowing his personal protection.
The act of a terrorist? I think not.
If I can make a suggestion the is a good book on Muhammed – Muhammed: a biography of the prophet.
It is not written by a Muslim but Karen Armstrong, a theologian who was once a Roman Catholic nun and who works in a rabbinical college.
The form of Islam that Harold is railing against is Wahabbism an minority extreme Sunni sect that only originated just over 200 years ago (Islam has been around for 1400 years).
Unfortunately, Wahabbism is becoming more widespread because it is the version of Islam supported by and propogated by the house of Saud (who were put into power by the British Empire 90 years ago) and because of the Saudis’ oil wealth it is propogated throughout the world without hinderance. Whilst we buy Saudi oil and continue to prop their regime with weaponry then this “radical” extreme and fascist aboration of Islam will continue to grow.
Correction: Muhammed did had a son Ibrahim by Mary the Copt named Ibrahim who died in infancy (I’m not absolutely sure if he was one of the two dead sons or not).
So the speculation on Muhammed’s potency after Khadija is settled.
BTW Muhammed also some jewish wives as well.
here you go TT,Muhammad was paedophile:http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10197
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,731590,00.html
Even the US knows about the islamic threat!
How many of the UAF were from Preston?
How many EDL were from Preston?
That’s the point I was replying to!
By reading some of the reports a large amount.
Well, at the BNP rally in Cleveleys about a year ago, the UAF invaded from all over the place and by all accounts some of them were rowdy and violent.
So I guess it doesn’t matter whether you’re local to whatever the issue is.
No what you seem to be saying is that you dislike the UAF and it doesn’t matter if the demonstrators were local or not you will still dislike them.
I’m saying they, and their supporters, are hypocrites for taking issue with the locality of their ideological opponents.
Big difference.
But as it happens, I think they are just as anti-social as the BNP, except seem to have the ‘righteous’ on their side.
If that what you are saying phil then you are using a bad example. The situation is this the EDL went to Preston to protest the opening of Mosques the locals under the banner of the UAF went to show the press and the rest of the country that the EDL did not speak for the people of Preston.
Well put Interested. The majority of the “UAF” protesters were indeed from Preston although there a few people from Lancaster, Fleetwood and Blackpool. At the BNP Rally in Cleveleys, which I personally attended, (The demo, not the BNP rally!) the majority of “UAF” people were from Blackpool, Cleveleys and Fleetwood. There were some students from Lancaster there too. There was no violence from any of the anti-fascist demonstrators that I saw. But there was violence by the BNP element as reported at the time by the Gazette who had reporters and a photographer present.
The anti-fascists were very vocal but completely peaceful they also ranged in age from young teens to pensioners.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333845/English-speaking-children-minority-inner-city-London-schools.html
Ah the benefits of cultural ‘enrichment’ and diversity…………..
One good policy of the EDL is this, if councils wont use the word christmas and instead use “winterval” or whatever pc shite,the EDL will protest.
Now that is excellent idea,smash the PC brigade.
Just seen “Coppers” about the edl march in Bolton and I have to say I have never seen anything as revolting as these UAF members;repulsive products of anal rape,genetic freaks raped at birth,covered in human excrement, filthy dirty retarded freaks that deserve to die of cancer.
They are anything but human,they are bottom feeding plankton, that deserve a dose of zyclon B,they are nothing but excrement eating fanatical rampant salivating paedophiles who want us all to be ‘diverse’.
Total scum.
The most interesting bit about this thread is that Tangerine Terrorist has shown that there maybe an argument (albeit an obviously false one) for Harold’s usual insults. And to think I just thought it was his normal language for everyone he didn’t approve of.
Muhammad was a paedophile and terrorist, end of;no surprsie that Islam the religion of peace wants peace but on its terms.The USA has doubts about the turkish goverment which is run by a islamisist: Rycep Erdogan and his neo Ottoman empire seeking acolytes.
Paedophile prophet Muhammad murdered those who refused to convert, namley jews and christians,he screwed a jewish girl whom he married as a political ploy and also vent his sexual perversions.Paedophile prophet Muhammad was a dangerous and very shrewd politician,realising the power of faith for his own ends.speaking of Jews, when it comes to anti semitism,Islam would make Adolf Hitler green with envy,no surprise Hitler employed the services of muslims,recognising their fanaticism.
when a muslim commits an atrocity in the name of islam, he is merely fulfilling its objectives as carried out by its founder: to convert the world to Islam and make those non muslims dhimmis.
Jesus didnt screw kids nor kill people, in contrast to kid fucker/terrorist Muhammad.
Islam is in many ways the new communism,sharing communisms ideals of supposed equality (unless you are gay or a woman or kufir): it must be stopped.Even Winston Churchill forsaw the dangers of Islam,and thanks to multicultralism and zanulabour, here we are today.
Roll on EDL.
Hmm, an opinion based upon no historical fact and a canard propogated by the enemies of Islam.
“Jesus didnt screw kids nor kill people”
Aye but his devout, holier-than-thou followers have been doing so for the best part of two millenia haven’t they? Even though they are supposed to “love thy neighbour as thyself” and “turn the other cheek”. If we’re talking about history lets talk about the crusades, the inquisition, the burning of heretics and witches (both Catholics and Protestants were guilty of this) – oh I thought not that was done by Christians and not Muslims. The dropping of the atomic bombson Hiroshima and Nagasaki was done by a predominantly Chrisitian nation (although allegedly church and state are supposed to be separate in the US). The dropping of chemical weapons to defoliate whole parts of indo-china was done by the US (as well as the killing of over two million vietnamese). I could go on but the list is long and not very pretty reading.
The fact is the biggest terrorist threats to this country over the past 500 years have been organised and perpetrated by Roman Catholics, English and Irish – fact, we celebrate it every November 5th.
However, we know how that popular demonisation ended in the 1970s don’t we? The Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six!
Islamic terrorism against the UK has been the product of our recent adventures as the USA’s and Israel’s mate (oh and by the way both the US and Israel were founded on terrorism against the British state). Before then the UK was not on the radar of the nutcase element of the Islamic world and was seen as pretty much “neutral”. I suppose the way the SAS ended the Iranian Embassy Siege sent a clear message to all the “revolutionary” loonies not to come here cause trouble. However, like it or not we are in a different world where the loonies on both sides are using terms such as “jihad” and “crusade” and the Islamic (or not-so as their action makes clear) loonies are not only prepared to die but welcome death because of the brainwashing that they have received by their Saudi -trained leaders (who usually forgo the honour of being a “martyr” of course) .
We’ll agree to disagree then
PS: Islam is in many ways the new communism
It is certainly not. In Islam the individual is responsible for his/her actions to God as an individual without intervention from anybody else on their behalf. There is no “Messiah” in Islam a man or woman is repsonsible absolutely for what they do.
Theres is of course the caliphate,who is the supreme leader like Hitler, Mussolini,stalin etc.
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called ‘hypocrites’ and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
Quran (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.
so there you go, the religion of peace making a virtue of violence, yes Islam wants peace but on its terms,not surprsing when you consider the historical fact that its founder was a rampant paedophile and man of violence.Prophet paedo Muhammad was the scum of the earth like his sucessors,Stalin,Hitler, pol pot…………
Taken out of context. This verse was revealed in Medina when the Muslim community was faced with extinction militarily by the Meccan pagan forces. Also to complicate matters was a fifth column amongst the Muslims consisting of some jewish tribes and hypocrites – bsically those professing Islam publicly and privately playing both ends against the middle and shirking their responsibilities to fight to defend the community.
The Qur’an does not make a virtue of violence however, it does understand the human condition and understands that if you are under attack then you have the right to defend yourselves against an aggressor.
Other verses call for restraint in the waging of war and that Muslims must desist in fighting when their enemy calls for a peace deal, stops attacking or oppressing. The rules of war laid out in the Qur’an are centuries ahead of their time if you consider the Geneva Convention and the often flagrant disregard for it shown by the major powers.
So how is ji-had justified in the Qur’an? And for that matter how were the Crusades justified in the Bible – I know there’s a bit about spreading his word but I don’t know where the bit is that it was ok to kill others with different beliefs. At least it no longer happens.
Quran (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.”
Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous through the perverse ethics of the ‘holy’ book, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defence, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time.
From the Hadith, Terrorist Muhammad was actually trying to spur his people into raiding caravans with this verse, after all he was a terrorist trying to enforce his political beliefs upon jews and christians, whom he slayed whilst carrying out his jihad.
….since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time…..
The audience was, as I have said, under attack at the time from the main military power in the Arabian peninsular, the pagans of Mecca. The Meccan pagan army attacked Medina several times and came very close on one occasion to capturing Medina with the help of a fifth column consisting of jewish tribes and hypocrites.
This verse was not meant to spur his people into raiding caravans, they were already raiding the caravans of Mecca as part of the ongoing conflict. This verse was for those (usually the rich and powerful) who would plead excuses in order not to fight preferring to let others do the fighting for them. When in a state of war, it is the duty of all Muslim males of fighting age to fight to defend their community from attack.
As for slaying Jews and Christians. Total hogwash Harold you’ll have to do better than that!
Jews were put to death during the war with Mecca (the time of the revelation of most of the Qur’an). Fact. However, they were not put to death because they were Jews rather because of betrayal. There were Jewish tribes who entered into alliance with the Muslims and their allies at Medina(Yathrib) who later became a fifth column subverting the Muslim community into hypocrites and giving a further military advantage to the Meccans from within. The first couple of times it happened Muhammed had them exiled. The third time they were executed. Quite understandable in the circumstances, spies and saboteurs were always executed in wartime (even up until the 20th Century) although this was on the third time of asking so IMO Muhammed showed real restraint.
Christians however were not even involved in war with the Muslims at the time:
“…and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, ‘We are Christians,’ because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant” (5:82).
But there were warnings in the context of religious belief:
“If only they [i.e. Christians] had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course, but many of them follow a course that is evil” (5:66).
“Oh People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion, nor say of God anything but the truth. Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him. So believe in God and His messengers. Say not, ‘Trinity.’ Desist! It will be better for you, for God is One God, Glory be to Him! (Far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs” (4:171).
Harold let us bring this discourse to an end, it’s off topic and probably boring the shit out of the rest of the people on this board. We shall never agree on this issue so therefore we shall have to wait until judgement day and let God choose between us in this matter
You know it’s quite refreshing to see a debate on this that hasn’t resorted to mud slinging.
If you actually want to continue this discussion I will make you a topic and you can discuss it ad infinitum!
Hi Phil just because I am vhemently againist the ideology of Islamistism (and agaisnt all religions in general) doesnt mean I cant have a reasonable debate with TT,even though I havent met him/her ,they do deserve respect.Ultimately I am opposed to multicultralism and the PC brigade whom I blame for the current mess;not all muslims..I dont think there will be any mud slinging amongst us on your site mate,except against politicians lol, and I have numerous ideas for articles in the offing! lol
cheers H
I’ve actually found it very interesting. As I’ve never read the Koran (and have no intention of trying to either) it’s interesting to see how some people justify ji-had out of it and how it probably meant defence against attack rather than aggression given the historical context.
Ok TT fair enough btw I need to remind you: There is NO God,lol.
Again one of us is going to be disappointed when they die.
You if you come to and there’s a hard-looking bloke looking at you disapprovingly.
Me if I come to and just see the BBC testcard.
Lol
lol,very well put Sir!